Elizabeth Warren fires back at Centrist Democrats

[FAH1223]

This is why I don't like her. She talks a good game because she's full of hot air. She's not even well liked in her own state I've heard.

Her approval rating is 57% in Massachusetts. She'll win re election next year.

I share some of your sentiments. I hate how she was used as an attack dog last year.

 

[DEAD7]

Yes, the system is rigged – and if you don’t feel like anyone in politics is doing anything to un-rig it, well, that’s how a lot of folks who should have been with us last November wound up voting for Donald Trump.

 

[tru_m.a.c]

I ran through a few quick thoughts in my head but they just led to me hitting the same stumbling block.

Anyone who is that intellectually dishonest is probably just selfish, but certainly only self interested.

So really any common ground is just me conceding to their own self interest and I doubt there would ever really be any meaningful compromise -- just finding areas where we Judy happen to agree. At first thought that sounds good, but i don't see that as viable.

For me that's where I fault purity politics or progressives who say it's UHC or bust. I fond it to be prohibitive to progress overall.

So if the right of this issue is "intellectually dishonest", and the left of this issue is correct, then what is the centrists position?

 

[Pressure]

So if the right of this issue is "intellectually dishonest", and the left of this issue is correct, then what is the centrists position?

I personally believe the centrist position is a culmination of what it means to be liberal across the 50 different states.

Full disclosure: I support pretty much everything that is popular among most progressives.

I've lived in the south and I've lived in San Francisco. What it means to be liberal in Charlotte, durham/chapel hill, and San Francisco are all very different however all of those places are very different from being conservative in all of those places.

Moderates for the most part are liberal on social issues. If not they'd just be republicans.

As a whole I think being democrat is being left of right for almost everywhere, but that means something different across the board and that's why we see democrats as a whole as "centrist."

If blacks ass whole voted progressive that movement would have more strength.

But my family, like may other families aren't going to go that far left because they are still Christians and they like progressives would either abstain or begrudgingly vote if they're social justice liberals. The difference, theyll just pray on it.

 

[GnauzBookOfRhymes]

Correct, a 50 state strategy is the only tenable solution. People like Joe Manchin are the difference between Obamacare being repealed and Trump/Ryan/McConnell looking like fools.

Do you realize that the 50 state strategy was in fact a rejection of the Democratic establishment? That Howard Dean was shytted on by centrists when he decided to implement it as head of the DNC. They thought it was a waste of money to try and set up operations in traditionally red states. But he realized that there were a lot of people there that would be receptive to Dems economic message, and he was right. Hilarious to try and co-opt the term as though it's something that progressives are against.

Smart progressives don't want Manchin to lose.

 

[Pressure]

Do you realize that the 50 state strategy was in fact a rejection of the Democratic establishment? That Howard Dean was shytted on by centrists when he decided to implement it as head of the DNC. They thought it was a waste of money to try and set up operations in traditionally red states. But he realized that there were a lot of people there that would be receptive to Dems economic message, and he was right. Hilarious to try and co-opt the term as though it's something that progressives are against.

Smart progressives don't want Manchin to lose.

 

[intra vires]

Do you realize that the 50 state strategy was in fact a rejection of the Democratic establishment? That Howard Dean was shytted on by centrists when he decided to implement it as head of the DNC. They thought it was a waste of money to try and set up operations in traditionally red states. But he realized that there were a lot of people there that would be receptive to Dems economic message, and he was right. Hilarious to try and co-opt the term as though it's something that progressives are against.

Smart progressives don't want Manchin to lose.

Uh... I don't disagree with you?

I'm pushing back against the so called progressives on this board who, apparently, want a more hierarchical party that doesn't take the needs/cultures of different states into account...

The guy I was conversing with wants the Manchin types to out of the party, even though in some cases those are the types some voters want to represent them.

 

[StatUS]

Uh... I don't disagree with you?

I'm pushing back against the so called progressives on this board who, apparently, want a more hierarchical party that doesn't take the needs/cultures of different states into account...

The guy I was conversing with wants the Manchin types to out of the party, even though in some cases those are the types some voters want to represent them.

Someone who votes for Trump over half the time needs to be gone. Yall can cry me a river over Manchin. Doesn't mean far left people need to run in Kentucky or West Virginia. But the people in those states need a better choice at least. If you give people two right wingers alot of times they'll go with the more extreme. That strategy is trash and is a another reason Trump is in.

I'll say this for the last time in here. Dems have been wiped out at every level, they basically only run the coastal states. They gotta do something else than what they have been. Just telling people to vote for Republicans or beating them down for low turnout when it works both ways on that front is not gonna end well.

 

[No1]

Uh... I don't disagree with you?

I'm pushing back against the so called progressives on this board who, apparently, want a more hierarchical party that doesn't take the needs/cultures of different states into account...

The guy I was conversing with wants the Manchin types to out of the party, even though in some cases those are the types some voters want to represent them.

The thing is, people are calling for people further to the left of these guys on economic issues not necessarily on social issues. Manchin is not a reliable economic vote.

 

[TTT]

The problem for Democrats is that they nationalized all those local races because the different factions were trying to prove something to each other. UHC is not a magic bullet, i even read an article in the Guardian were some Progressives were claiming that if Ossoff ran on climate and minimum wage stuff he would have won that relatively wealthy district. There seemed to be a sense of joy whenever a progressive or centrist lost in those elections because people wanted to be proven right. I think the Democrats lack someone who can walk a tight rope of distancing themselves on social issues while talking up the economic issues. It's either they get caught up in that Mello mess which came to ultimately define that campaign and enraged the feminist groups in the same way that abortion litmus test stuff did. West Virginia seems too far gone IMO, it is a state that looks like it will be a Kentucky where there are people who are nominally Democrats because they don't want to change registration like that clerk in the gay marriage controversy. It started with Gore and it has not improved at all throughout the years. They even made the EPA a swear word around there.

 

[Pressure]

The thing is, people are calling for people further to the left of these guys on economic issues not necessarily on social issues. Manchin is not a reliable economic vote.

These people aren't his constituents though.

 

[No1]

These people aren't his constituents though.

His constituents are coal miners who poll left on economics and right on social issues.

 

[Pressure]

His constituents are coal miners who poll left on economics and right on social issues.

I think you're oversimplifying his constituency. This is just based on having been to WV a decent amount and having dated someone who was from there.

edit: There are only 20k coal mining jobs in WV.

 

[intra vires]

The thing is, people are calling for people further to the left of these guys on economic issues not necessarily on social issues. Manchin is not a reliable economic vote.

Make no mistake, I'm not saying this to absolve Manchin -- I don't particularly care for him either. However, the circumstances we're presently in dictate that there are more pressing issues this election cycle.

State elections are going to have redistricting implications. Obviously every House is up and the GOP has more of them (I haven't had time to dive into specific races outside of my home state).

Finally, Democrats have 23 US Senators up for re-election while the GOP has only 8. To make these numbers matter there are 6 seats currently* viewed as vulnerable, 4 are Democrats in Trumpland (Indiana, North Dakota, Missouri, West Virginia) and 2 are GOP (Nevada and Arizona). Of these, Manchin currently* is seen as having the best shot at re-election and Arizona currently* is thought to be more competitive in GOP primary than general election.

Again, I'd rather revisit Manchin's reliability at a less tenuous time.

Spoiler: *

By currently I mean the last time I checked, which was several days ago.

Someone who votes for Trump over half the time needs to be gone. Yall can cry me a river over Manchin. Doesn't mean far left people need to run in Kentucky or West Virginia. But the people in those states need a better choice at least. If you give people two right wingers alot of times they'll go with the more extreme. That strategy is trash and is a another reason Trump is in.

I'll say this for the last time in here. Dems have been wiped out at every level, they basically only run the coastal states. They gotta do something else than what they have been. Just telling people to vote for Republicans or beating them down for low turnout when it works both ways on that front is not gonna end well.

I already explained why the Democrats are in the position they are currently in a previous post.

First, unless you live in Kentucky or West Virginia how you feel about their representatives is irrelevant. They don't answer to you unless you're apart of their constituency, which leads to my second point...

You talk about a better choice, but what if the people actually want Manchin? Is it better to work with a conservative Democrat like Manchin or pull support and potentially end up with a Trump surrogate? Sometimes that is the option these constituencies give us.

If you disagree, then let's agree to disagree.

 

[Grifter]

"We wanted a movement. And now, look around. We got the progressive movement, and we gather here every year to organize, to energize, and to sing karaoke."