Fansided Article: Bret Hart, The most decent mediocre, decent Superstar ever
- Thread starter RammerJammer
- Start date
No they weren't
HBK vs Austin Feud drew way higher ratings then Austin vs Bret. Also after HBK beat Bret at WM 12 ratings doubled and shot up to the highest rating since the Hogan era
Where are your numbers to back these claims, breh?
Wrestlemania 12 HBK vs Bret 290,000 buys
Wrestlemania 13 NO HBK (Austin vs Bret) 237,000 buys LOWEST ALL-TIME
Wrestlemania 14 NO BRET (HBK vs Austin) 730,000 buys
How did Austin vs Bret draw more than HBK vs Austin?
Survivor Series 1995 Bret vs Diesel 128,000 LOWEST ALL-TIME
Survivor Series 1996 HBK vs Sid 199,000
I'm not even getting into In your house where Bret was again the lowest drawer in that era
Diesel vs HBK In your house outdrew Bret vs Diesel Survivor Series
HBK vs Bulldog also outdrew Bret vs Bulldog a couple months apart
There' s alot more also. Fact is Bret is one of the worst drawing wrestlers of all-time. Men lie women lie numbers don't.
Wrestlemania 13 NO HBK (Austin vs Bret) 237,000 buys LOWEST ALL-TIME
Wrestlemania 14 NO BRET (HBK vs Austin) 730,000 buys
How did Austin vs Bret draw more than HBK vs Austin?
Survivor Series 1995 Bret vs Diesel 128,000 LOWEST ALL-TIME
Survivor Series 1996 HBK vs Sid 199,000
I'm not even getting into In your house where Bret was again the lowest drawer in that era
Diesel vs HBK In your house outdrew Bret vs Diesel Survivor Series
HBK vs Bulldog also outdrew Bret vs Bulldog a couple months apart
There' s alot more also. Fact is Bret is one of the worst drawing wrestlers of all-time. Men lie women lie numbers don't.
Pinyapplesuckas
He's A Good Man
lol @ nikkas using "draw" as a factor in why they are a fan...i dont give a fukk if a nikka never sold one t shirt or filled one seat...if the talent is there its there.
yall were really watching wrestling at 12 years old like " this fool aint no draw
"
yall were really watching wrestling at 12 years old like "
this fool aint no draw "https://forums.rajah.com/showthread.php?146361-Wrestlemania-Buyrates-over-the-years
You're numbers are skewed and you know it. You left off WrestleMania 9 (which did 430,000) & 10 (which did 420,000) that Bret actually main evented in the title match. Bret didn't main event WM13, he was only on the card, attribute that buyrate to Undertaker and Sid and a weak overall card and WM14 numbers are boosted by Mike Tyson guest appearance. Also notice you left off WM 11's numbers (340,000) where HBK fought for the title, which are specifically less than Bret's numbers. Also, you are attributing the one Bret/HBK WM which had a low buyrate to Bret but not HBK.
You are moving the goal posts like shyt. I'm not even trying to argue Bret was a huge draw, but don't try to argue HBK was any better than him because the numbers don't back that.
Austin/Bret was a fued that carried the WWE for an entire year, HBK feuded with Austin for about 2-3 months tops.
http://www.angelfire.com/pa2/RAWisWAR/WWFBuyRates.html
So you gonna ignore 1996's numbers benefitted from a returning Bret Hart, but ignore 1995 weak card and attribute the numbers to Bret. Right, gotcha
Just so you can ignore HBK's abysmally low IYH numbers too, right?
Diesel vs HBK In your house outdrew Bret vs Diesel Survivor Series
HBK vs Bulldog also outdrew Bret vs Bulldog a couple months apart
There' s alot more also. Fact is Bret is one of the worst drawing wrestlers of all-time. Men lie women lie numbers don't.
http://i39.tinypic.com/2vipcaa.jpg
Your biggest problem (outside of you picking and choosing what numbers and PPV to count) is that you are arguing from the theory that the Main Event is the only thing drawing people to a card, that is factually and logically wrong. Bret was NOT a huge draw for is time, but he was the biggest draw they had at the time, Diesel, HBK and Taker all did equal or lesser numbers than him.
You can say Bret was one of the lowest drawing WWE champs of all time (disregarding that current numbers attribute worldwide buys and 90s numbers did not) but don't try to argue anyone from the New Generation era was trumping him. AT BEST its a close race for "best of the worst era" between Bret and HBK. They both were drawing lower buyrates, the difference is Bret was building up new stars that actually DREW like Austin and Rock while HBK was only building up his team.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
And why do you think they were booked so strongly? Because they were amazing performers.
Before the WWE was a publicly traded company and all the decisions were being made in house who do you think were the ones getting the best booking? The ones who Vince thought he could make the most money with. The ones who got the most fan support.
We know it's a work. We know it's a fantasy. But in case you haven't noticed when it comes to this kayfabe fantasy world the strongest wrestlers are the ones that get their power from the crowd. Hulk Hogan wasn't the best because he had the 24 inch pythons he was the best because he had the power of Hulkamania behind him. He had the crowd.
Bret never had the crowd like those guys. That's why he wasn't booked as strong. Sure he's got longevity but if we're comparing their primes it isn't even a contest. Bret Hart never came close to accomplishing what a guy like Warrior did. That's why in my personal opinion I would still put Warrior ahead of him.
And again this isn't really a knock on Bret cause like I said a lot of it was circumstantial but fact is Bret didn't make it to the top of the card until the heavy hitters of his era had all gone. Meanwhile look at the competition Warrior had to go through on his quest to the top. Savage, Andre, Perfect, DiBiase, Rude, Jake, Piper, etc... look at how STACKED that era was and this guy not only made it to the top he fukkin beat HULK HOGAN for the belt in the main event of Wrestlemania.
If that doesn't put him ahead of Bret Hart I don't know what does.
fukk the author. Bret made the whole world hate America with his mic work. Check Calgary stampede ppv and tell me this guy wasn't over. Or anywhere else in the world..Bret was voted the number 1 hero in India and china at his peak
Actually, I'd argue Bret was booked about as strongly as a guy can get. He has a higher win ratio in the WWE than everyone not named Warrior (Bret won more than Hogan, Austin and HHH in WWE, think about that). He made Steve Austin legit without ever really losing to him, Bret had crazy strong booking.
Also, you are missing my point. Because a guy is booked strongly, that doesn't make him a better performer. There are TONS of reason why a guy gets booked strongly and many are unrelated to each other, it can be anything from their look to them just being a favorite of management. Warrior was NOT a elite performer but that doesn't mean he wasn't a great talent or a draw. He was the strongest booked wrestler ever, obviously but that doesn't mean he was the most over, biggest draw or most talented, it was just how his character was written. Also, if you are saying Bret wasn't crazy over with audiences, I'm wondering if you really watched his entire run. As a Face he was the most beloved guy in the company at his time, as a heel he was the most hated. I fail to see anything Warrior accomplished that Bret didn't surpass, Warrior didn't even draw more money than Bret, come on now.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
Look at the competition though. Look at who Bret beat and look at who Hogan beat. Hogan's era was way more stacked and he still dominated. There's a long list of legends and all time greats who never won the world championship because their peaks just so happened to coincide with Hogan's. When Hogan was on top no one was touching him.
And if Bret had faced Austin 1 year later you could bet your ass he doesn't win that either.
I'm sorry man you are completely off base. Vince didn't hire Warrior with the intent of making him the next Hulk Hogan. Warrior got that opportunity because he was getting the reactions, and there is absolutely no guarantee that if Vince had given the Ultimate Warrior character to any other person that they would have ran with it as far or soared as high with it as Jim Hellwig did. The reason he got so over is because he was a supremely talented performer that got the fans to believe in his character.
Bret in his entire career was never AS popular as Warrior was from 89-91.
Who was competition for Hogan in his era? He was by and far the #1 guy in his era, even Warrior and Macho were 2 levels behind him.
Bret's era was more top heavy kayfabe wise as his peers (HBK, Razor, Diesel, Yoko, Taker, Sid, Austin, etc.) all got wins over each other. And how many world champions Bret's era produced compared to Hogan's? Everyone I named was a world champion and a credible one (except Razor who SHOULD have been champ), in Hogan's era is was a monopoly between him, Warrior, Flair and Macho for the most part. Rude, Jake, Perfect and the rest never got a world title reign or even a main event fued in their era. How is it more stacked unless you are counting Bret, HBK and the like as undercarders as well?
Bret beat Austin every single time they fought with the exception of Austin winning via DQ in their last match together in which Bret still beat him down. Bret was so good, he made you believe Austin had a chance every single time tho.
Bruh, Vince himself said he met Warrior and created his character to be an unstoppable wrecking machine and the booking shows that. I agree that Warrior was very over but was he ever more over than Hogan or Macho Man?.... that's debateable.
And the reason he got over was the booking. He won ALL the time and people LOVE winners, that's human nature. And keep in mind, Kayfabe was still strong then, Warrior's unique character PLUS overly strong booking got him over. And its not like Warrior was having classic matches every night, he got over because he was Goldberg .4954 beta, people love getting behind an insanely dominant winner and that's true in almost every avenue in life.
What defines popularity?
Is it being over with the crowd? Because Bret had that in spades
Is it being a huge draw? I'd argue Bret at his peak could at least debate that with Warrior even tho Warrior's reign was short like leprechauns
Is it worldwide notoriety? Bret Hart was made champ specifically because he had a strong worldwide presence and Vince saw opportunity to expand there
Is it longevity? Bret clearly has the edge here
Its it respect from peers? Bret wins this again, he even went into the HOF before Warrior
Unless you are talking about personal stance, I'm failing to see where the tangible part of your argument. And I'm not trying to diss here at all because I'm enjoying the convo, I just really want to know specifically where you are coming from here?
I think Bret fit perfectly for his era. You wil NEVER confuse Bret Hart w/ the Attitude era, tho he was a key piece in the beginning of the Attitude era.
I think Bret played his roles perfectly, again for his era
Great tag team wrestler, great IC champ, but most importantly, he gave the World title belt validity. The validity it took to make the belt matter on guys like BK and then Stone Cold.
I think Bret played his roles perfectly, again for his era
Great tag team wrestler, great IC champ, but most importantly, he gave the World title belt validity. The validity it took to make the belt matter on guys like BK and then Stone Cold.
I read this shyt like 5 times trying to figure out who BK was
haha...my bad. HBK
ElReyDelMundo
Pro
Bret Hart is his biggest mark