Feminists on the coli

[NobodyReally]

Yeah, @charmander done sonned a lot of these chicks.

According to who?

 

[William F. Russell]

We still haven't established what a black feminist is. You guys are arguing with us like we're radical. We're black and we're feminists. A feminist is defined as:

"a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women"

You have no proof we're radical. I haven't heard ONE feminist in this thread talk about hating black men, or eradicating black men, or beating black men to rule the world. Yet the fact that we embrace the label feminism makes us radical. It's the same sort of knee-jerk response whites have when black say they are for civil rights and social justice. White hear "black militant" and "kill whitey", and block out everything else that's said unless it supports that preconception.

So why don't black women just support the mainstream feminist movement, if that's all there is to it?

 

[Wild self]

We still haven't established what a black feminist is. You guys are arguing with us like we're radical. We're black and we're feminists. A feminist is defined as:

"a collection of movements and ideologies aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, cultural, and social rights for women"

You have no proof we're radical. I haven't heard ONE feminist in this thread talk about hating black men, or eradicating black men, or beating black men to rule the world. Yet the fact that we embrace the label feminism makes us radical. It's the same sort of knee-jerk response whites have when blacks say they are for civil rights and social justice. Whites think those sort of blacks are "militant" and want to "kill whitey", and block out everything else that's said unless it supports that preconception.

Like @Elle Driver said, it is impossible for a black woman to be a black feminist.

 

[NobodyReally]

So why don't black women just support the mainstream feminist movement, if that's all there is to it?

The mainstream feminist movement largely ignores the plight of being black in America. You guys should be supporting black feminists. Black women who are "just feminists" and ignore their blackness are scary as hell, IMO.

 

[NobodyReally]

Like @Elle Driver said, it is impossible for a black woman to be a black feminist.

And I say, any black woman OR black man who supports having their black daughters, wives, sisters, and mothers rights and being treated fairly as a woman and as a black person is a black feminist, whether they embrace that term or not.

 

[William F. Russell]

The mainstream feminist movement largely ignores the plight of being black in America. You guys should be supporting black feminists. Black women who are "just feminists" and ignore their blackness are scary as hell, IMO.

OK but what issues do black women specifically face that are exclusive to any other demographic?

To me, it seems that black women's issues are more tied to being black than to being women. So it would make more sense for black women to combat the racial injustice in dominant society instead of fighting carbon copy issues of feminism under the guise of "black feminism". To me, black feminism is just another divisive movement in the black community. Moreover, black feminism has not achieved anything tangible.

 

[William F. Russell]

And I say, any black woman OR black man who supports having their black daughters, wives, sisters, and mothers rights and being treated fairly as a woman and as a black person is a black feminist, whether they embrace that term or not.

How can anybody be a black feminist if there's not even a proper definition of black feminism?

 

[NobodyReally]

How can anybody be a black feminist is there's not even a proper definition of black feminism?

I gave one like 20 pages ago. Seriously, there's a great deal of literature on it. It's a fun read, even if you don't agree, it's good to know "your enemy" if you insist that they are. The first on the list is the mother of it all.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=black+feminist+books&tbm=shop

 

[NobodyReally]

OK but what issues do black women specifically face that are exclusive to any other demographic?

To me, it seems that black women's issues are more tied to being black than to being women. So it would make more sense for black women to combat the racial injustice in dominant society instead of fighting carbon copy issues of feminism under the guise of "black feminism". To me, black feminism is just another divisive movement in the black community. Moreover, black feminism has not achieved anything tangible.

And there are definitely black feminists that would agree with you on that. It's not like we all think the same. There's a lot of debate about intersectionality and which identity has more weight. I think it depends on the context. I personally don't believe it's a either/or thing. I don't like the divisions some make between black men and women, but I do think there are some difficult gendered conversations that need to be had if we're going to move forward as a community.

 

[William F. Russell]

And there are definitely black feminists that would agree with you on that. It's not like we all think the same. There's a lot of debate about intersectionality and which identity has more weight. I think it depends on the context. I personally don't believe it's a either/or thing. I don't like the divisions some make between black men and women, but I do think there are some difficult gendered conversations that need to be had if we're going to move forward as a community.

I hate to belabor the point but what specific issues do black women face as women (as opposed to the obvious issues that they face as black people)?

Until this question can adequately and logically be answered, I believe that intersectionality is irrelevant for the black community. More specially, black women AND black men should combat racism in dominant society. Any other talk of feminism, LGBT rights, intersectionality should take several backseats until our community has made substantial and significant progress against systematic racism.

 

[NobodyReally]

I hate to belabor the point but what specific issues do black women face as women (as opposed to the obvious issues that they face as black people)?

Until this question can adequately and logically be answered, I believe that intersectionality is irrelevant for the black community. More specially, black women AND black men should combat racism in dominant society. Any other talk of feminism, LGBT rights, intersectionality should take several backseats until our community has made substantial and significant progress against systematic racism.

I just don't get why discussing women's right is such a threat? I'm talking about raising awareness about sexual harassment, assault, being belittled for being a woman period. I actually think that black men should care about these things because they are relevant to systematic racism.

In war,women are used as pawns to tramp on the enemy. Your enemy degrades and abuses women to show conquest. For me, these issues aren't separate. The misogyny black women face is closely tied to their race. What's worse is that a lot of black women and black men have accepted and internalized this misogyny and do the work of degrading black women or themselves so that the enemy doesn't have to. Black feminists don't just address the misogyny of black men, but also how women project and internalize it. When you have a race of women who are devalued for their race and gender, it bleeds into everything - how they raise their children, how relate to their men, how they interact with each other. You can't really uplift the community when a large part of that community is not whole or regarded as whole by the other half.

I don't expect to change your mind, this is just what I feel and why I embrace it.

 

[William F. Russell]

I just don't get why discussing women's right is such a threat? I'm talking about raising awareness about sexual harassment, assault, being belittled for being a woman period. I actually think that black men should care about these things because they are relevant to systematic racism.

In war,women are used as pawns to tramp on the enemy. Your enemy degrades and abuses women to show conquest. For me, these issues aren't separate. The misogyny black women face is closely tied to their race. What's worse is that a lot of black women and black men have accepted and internalized this misogyny and do the work of degrading black women or themselves so that the enemy doesn't have to. Black feminists don't just address the misogyny of black men, but also how women project and internalize it. When you have a race of women who are devalued for their race and gender, it bleeds into everything - how they raise their children, how relate to their men, how they interact with each other. You can't really uplift the community when a large part of that community is not whole or regarded as whole by the other half.

I don't expect to change your mind, this is just what I feel and why I embrace it.

Nobody said that discussing women's rights is a threat.

What I'm saying is that the misogyny that black women face boils down to racism, as opposed to sexism. Sexism certainly exists but it exists as an agent of the more greater discrimination (racism). In other words, black women are not oppressed because they're woman but because they're black. All the women's rights issues that black feminism supposedly combat, mainstream feminism has been combating (and in many respects have eradicated). Mainstream feminism doesn't benefit black women as much because of racism. Hence, it behooves black women to unite with black men and fight against racism. In theory, if we were to combat racism successfully, then the gains of the mainstream feminist movement would by default be shared with black women. Conversely, if black women successfully fought for women's rights issues, they'd still be left in the dark because they're black.

Moreover, all black feminism appears to do is pit black women against black men in the name of gender rights. In reality, it benefits dominant society ultimately because the character of black men (and the black community in general) is being assassinated by black women instead of whites. Furthermore, black men generally are not in the position to discriminate against black women on the basis of gender. You ever notice how members of the mainstream feminist movement reach out to black feminists solely when black feminists are attacking black men (i.e., the street harassment movement)? You ever notice how dominant society is all too cooperative with black feminists when black men are on the firing line (see: Ray Rice, Adrian Peterson, Chris Brown)? Think about it and put it all together.

Ultimately, black feminism has not contributed to the upheaval and the prosperity of the black community. Hell, black feminism doesn't even help black women. If it did either, y'all would've been able to point out tangible gains made by the black feminist movement. Instead, the movement doesn't even have a tangible definition.

Until you or anybody else can clearly and specifically explain how black women exclusively suffer from sexism, I will continue to believe that black feminism is a point and nebulous off-shoot of mainstream feminsim (even though the larger movement mainly benefits white women).

 

[marcuz]

And I say, any black woman OR black man who supports having their black daughters, wives, sisters, and mothers rights and being treated fairly as a woman and as a black person is a black feminist, whether they embrace that term or not.

you dont need more black male feminist. we already have enough black males that believe y'all are equal and perfectly capable of taking on responsibilities that you ARENT. if anything, we need more chauvinist in the community. then, maybe, BW would receive more of that protection and providing they're always bytching about.

 

[Wild self]

you dont need more black male feminist. we already have enough black males that believe y'all are equal and perfectly capable of taking on responsibilities that you ARENT. if anything, we need more chauvinist in the community. then, maybe, BW would receive more of that protection and providing they're always bytching about.

Funny how everyone bends down to feminists and they still ain't happy.

They want microchips in our brains

 

[morris]