Finally read Cosbys whole speech. Why would a black person disagree?

[William F. Russell]

i've heard this exact line of thinking from c00ns that allow their cac friends to say ****** around them

C'mon breh...I don't let any non-black use the n-word around me. Moreover, I don't try to gain approval or favoritism from cacs.

All I know is that I'm doing the best I can do get where I want to be. I don't embrace a defeatist or victimhood mentality. I don't spend time crying about white supremacy when I have opportunities to do better for myself. I don't blame racism or inequality for my personal shortcomings. That's all I meant when I said that the speech didn't apply to me.

 

[havoc]

I am amazed and disgusted by this enabling behaviour.

Why can't we opposed Bill's opinion ? Nobody isn't enabling lower-class wretched behavior. Bill's opinion did have a lot of holes and left out the grass-root that created the division in the lower class. Also, we are having too many pound cake speeches that are outdated and doesn't really reflect the current trend in many black communities. I mean take a look at the pattern in this era. Despite the high rate of children of being born out of wedlock, the kids are doing better in education, a vast population of the youth are not walking into the path of incarceration like the prior generation, thug culture is steady phasing out, teen pregnancy rate had significantly plummeted, and we are gradually increasing our interest in entrepreneurship and technology. These progress of black people don't get national coverage, and get less attention from the masses.

For the record, I'm not saying the we shouldn't deal with our internal struggle or everything is rosy and peaceful. I'm implying that we have been proactive in changing the condition in many black neighborhood. If we were complacent and lazy to change things around , we would have the same devastated condition like our older generation of the 70s, 80s and the 90s.

 

[Still Benefited]

Bold is the problem its almost always a fukking excuse. Cats can come up the same as you make it and then its they giving out bootstraps when they used them same damn " bootstraps" to pull themselves out of the situation they were in. It always a fukking excuse and I don't know how some of y'all can't see it. "Poor" blacks going to stay " poor" if every time somebody comes with a message its always an excuse unless like others have before said its whitey, whitey, whitey. No shyt it is part of,the problem and the biggest one but what are you going to do to improve your situation when you already know the obstacles? Just whine about whitey who ain't coming to help you or start on the journey to do what you can with like minded people of whatever group it is to get ahead?

I got a question for you,has anybody who was successful ever said "I read the good ol pick yourself up by the bootstraps quote and it changed my life"....Don't think ive ever heard that,reason being is the pick up yourself by the bootstrap speech only reaches people who already have that unbreakable drive,confidence and motor in them to not quit no matter the setbacks..it reaches people who didn't need the speech....People who have that drive cuz either its just in them by birth,or was instilled in them early on,or they just found the thing they love to do and were good at that gave em that drive.

But what do you teach the people who already lack confidence, never had that drive or hardwork instilled in them,people who are easily breakable when shyt don't go exactly how they planned it? Your advice is to give them the same damn advice? Rather than give them advice catered toward the REALITY of who they actually are to help them be productive people who lead productive and happy lives and not get them in over they head? theres a reason doctors take all factors into account(age,height,weight,medical history,symptons) before giving a diagonosis and a prescription....if the doctor says "just take this" cuz he feels your head is hot he's a azzhole

I think what we can agree on is,folks need to spend more time with family who they KNOW giving out advice and mentoring....And know there background and know yourself if you are the right person to mentor that person....Theres a reason Jordan shouldn't have been teaching Kwame Brown..or a natural atheltic freak like AIlen Iverson should be teaching somebody who needs alot of practice...it takes humility to understand you don't have the answers for EVERYBODY....but both sides of the argument are too arrogant to see it.

 

[Cynical Thoughts]

To pursue this race metaphor, it would be like if you showed up for a track meet for your son, and it was determined that the other kids would be able to start the race with a considerable head start than your son. When your son loses, the coach and others berate him for not being better, taking the easy way, etc, etc.....you'd think you'd have entered the twilight zone. Thats the way I feel when I read your guys' commentary. How are the very real factors that design outcomes for black people not incorporated to your analysis. Oh....because its intellectually lazy and easier to just offer rhetoric like "pull your pants up", rather than engaging in serious economic research.

Mechanisms from the dominant society were DESIGNED to interfere with mobility of black people. Dysfunctional outcomes are literally going as expected. This isnt specific to the black community. World wide in many euro countries, displaced immigrants and their descendants in foreign hostile countries have much higher rates of disfunction than natives. One only needs to look at the generational poverty and drug rates of the appalachian mountains here in the states to understand how the human condition can direct outcomes. Have kids grow up where they have access to the best available, while other groups are surrounded by dysfunction and the results follow.

This isnt making any sort of judgements on the aggregated outcomes which you guys focus on only, but the fact that you remove the obvious root cause, and socio-economic stimuli or lack thereof in the communities you judge lets us all know where your head is at.

Sir your metaphor is flawed. They arent being challenged for not trying, their being challenged for not giving a fukk. Two totally different things. Nothing cosby said is out of reach for the demo he was addressing. But if they strive for below average(which your ok with) it is an insult to ask them not to have kids in their mid teens.

If your so mad at what cosby didn't say, turn off the tv and then continue to educate/raise YOUR OWN CHILDREN on what you want them to know.

You think the youth of today arent lazy with racial issues compared to the youths of 60s and 70s? Yes or No.

 

[Cynical Thoughts]

Nobody isn't enabling lower-class wretched behavior.

en·a·bler
iˈnāblər,e-/
noun

1. a person or thing that makes something possible.
   "the people who run these workshops are crime enablers"
   • a person who encourages or enables negative or self-destructive behavior in another.
     "he criticized her role as an enabler in her husband's pathological womanizing"

You dont feel there are enablers in the black community?

 

[Yup]

en·a·bler
iˈnāblər,e-/
noun

1. a person or thing that makes something possible.
   "the people who run these workshops are crime enablers"
   • a person who encourages or enables negative or self-destructive behavior in another.
     "he criticized her role as an enabler in her husband's pathological womanizing"

You dont feel there are enablers in the black community?

Too many...Although I know the question was not directed to me. People really finding excuses for raising children like they have no sense.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

Sir your metaphor is flawed. They arent being challenged for not trying, their being challenged for not giving a fukk. Two totally different things. Nothing cosby said is out of reach for the demo he was addressing. But if they strive for below average(which your ok with) it is an insult to ask them not to have kids in their mid teens.

If your so mad at what cosby didn't say, turn off the tv and then continue to educate/raise YOUR OWN CHILDREN on what you want them to know.

You think the youth of today arent lazy with racial issues compared to the youths of 60s and 70s? Yes or No.

Black people not giving a fukk is your racialized invention. Its similar to the line of scholarship produced by Charles Murray of the bell curve, who arrived at the overall conclusion that social investment in black education and employment was fruitless because blacks lacked the genetic endowment and are by nature lazy, unintelligent, violent, and disinterested in goal attainment.

When we had our economic collapse from the great depression, FDR understood it was critical to intervene and provide economic stability thru opportunity and stimulation in order to avoid decay. You didnt hear any of that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" bullshyt, but decisive meaningful action in the form of the WPA, G.I Bill, etc. But if you continue to cement these stereotypes that blacks are dysfunctional as a constitution of their being, then its natural to support a societal neglect of them, which produces the outcomes you really want: Black failure. Cross racially and nationally, where there arent any jobs and poor education you are going to find higher rates of dysfunction. Period

Look at this. Chicago created a summer jobs program, and you can see the results for yourself. Although Im sure they were responding to nasty lectures about "pulling their pants up", rather than genuine opportunity and investment:

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/chic...r-job-violent-crime-arrests-plummeted.274149/

 

[No_bammer_weed]

All I see in this thread are posters who enable counterproductive and deplorable behavior by pointing to systematic racism as justification for said behavior. The failure for certain people to look within themselves and take responsibility for their actions is simultaneously astounding and depressing.

This is untrue. You are incapable of making an honest argument. What you're trying to do is engage in emotional blackmail in order to make others commit to this idea that the systemic racism used to injure blacks is basically inconsequential to the prosperity of inner city blacks. How are a lack of jobs and bad schools and teachers not "counterproductive"?

The causal factors are what they are, unless you want to make another argument which I suspect you've been hinting at all along. What you really want to accomplish is to smuggle in racist ideas against blacks, and couch them into this seemingly morally justifiable reasoning of "personal responsibility".

Here's what you need to do in order to make a substantive argument. You need to produce serious data which shows that blacks are avoiding all these solid job opportunities in their areas, and forgoing quality, top flight education in their neighborhoods in lieu of engaging in "deplorable behaviors". If you want the best for black people, why on earth wouldnt you demand jobs and a better education to serve the children, in conjunction with making demands that they perform when given opportunities? It seems blacks are just this social experiment, where we see how they react to very little resources, and ungodly amounts of discrimination, hostility, and racism.

 

[Still Benefited]

Black people not giving a fukk is your racialized invention. Its similar to the line of scholarship produced by Charles Murray of the bell curve, who arrived at the overall conclusion that social investment in black education and employment was fruitless because blacks lacked the genetic endowment and are by nature lazy, unintelligent, violent, and disinterested in goal attainment.

When we had our economic collapse from the great depression, FDR understood it was critical to intervene and provide economic stability thru opportunity and stimulation in order to avoid decay. You didnt hear any of that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" bullshyt, but decisive meaningful action in the form of the WPA, G.I Bill, etc. But if you continue to cement these stereotypes that blacks are dysfunctional as a constitution of their being, then its natural to support a societal neglect of them, which produces the outcomes you really want: Black failure. Cross racially and nationally, where there arent any jobs and poor education you are going to find higher rates of dysfunction. Period

Look at this. Chicago created a summer jobs program, and you can see the results for yourself. Although Im sure they were responding to nasty lectures about "pulling their pants up", rather than genuine opportunity and investment:

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/chic...r-job-violent-crime-arrests-plummeted.274149/

Some of these are kids with GED's highschool diplomas,some explaining how just by pure luck with a family member telling them about the program they decided to do it....some explaining how a grocery store job was a big deal to them because they didn't know better,and how the conditions they grew up in all felt normal....some explaining they never thought long term becuz they family needed to eat NOW.

These are mentalitys that poverty create,to think you can tell people to "just cut it out" is arrogant as shyt....theres more than one way skin a cat but folks would rather just write those in poverty off as not "holding up their end of the bargain" AS IF they know....good to see some white people not take that stance and reach back to teach instead of condemn and blame....meanwhile black folks who aint that far removed from poverty got the nerve to talk down in such disgusting and resentful tones

 

[Cynical Thoughts]

Black people not giving a fukk is your racialized invention. Its similar to the line of scholarship produced by Charles Murray of the bell curve, who arrived at the overall conclusion that social investment in black education and employment was fruitless because blacks lacked the genetic endowment and are by nature lazy, unintelligent, violent, and disinterested in goal attainment.

When we had our economic collapse from the great depression, FDR understood it was critical to intervene and provide economic stability thru opportunity and stimulation in order to avoid decay. You didnt hear any of that "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" bullshyt, but decisive meaningful action in the form of the WPA, G.I Bill, etc. But if you continue to cement these stereotypes that blacks are dysfunctional as a constitution of their being, then its natural to support a societal neglect of them, which produces the outcomes you really want: Black failure. Cross racially and nationally, where there arent any jobs and poor education you are going to find higher rates of dysfunction. Period

Look at this. Chicago created a summer jobs program, and you can see the results for yourself. Although Im sure they were responding to nasty lectures about "pulling their pants up", rather than genuine opportunity and investment:

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/chic...r-job-violent-crime-arrests-plummeted.274149/

We are to far in this discussion to act like when i say "black people" that i mean ever single black person. This is when i start to think ok he playing games now he gonna start putting words in my mouth.

Thats great with chicago and im sure if you would look up programs cosby is responsible for you would see just as good of a turn out if not better. But you not gonna do that are the you?

I asked you a straight yes or no question whats the anwser. Concerning racial issues are the youth of today lazy compared to the 60s and 70s. Cause for some reason you wanna act like slavery just ended.

 

[Cynical Thoughts]

Some of these are kids with GED's highschool diplomas,some explaining how just by pure luck with a family member telling them about the program they decided to do it....some explaining how a grocery store job was a big deal to them because they didn't know better,and how the conditions they grew up in all felt normal....some explaining they never thought long term becuz they family needed to eat NOW.

These are mentalitys that poverty create,to think you can tell people to "just cut it out" is arrogant as shyt....theres more than one way skin a cat but folks would rather just write those in poverty off as not "holding up their end of the bargain" AS IF they know....good to see some white people not take that stance and reach back to teach instead of condemn and blame....meanwhile black folks who aint that far removed from poverty got the nerve to talk down in such disgusting and resentful tones

"Still not soft" offended by tones. Really breh.

20 years from now you and your boy no bammer weed gone be saying the same shyt.

Ask people in the do the know right from wrong and see what they tell you. You would post up some shyt with a white man it.

Edit: at what minute in that video did they discuss white supremacy.

 

[William F. Russell]

This is untrue. You are incapable of making an honest argument. What you're trying to do is engage in emotional blackmail in order to make others commit to this idea that the systemic racism used to injure blacks is basically inconsequential to the prosperity of inner city blacks. How are a lack of jobs and bad schools and teachers not "counterproductive"?

The causal factors are what they are, unless you want to make another argument which I suspect you've been hinting at all along. What you really want to accomplish is to smuggle in racist ideas against blacks, and couch them into this seemingly morally justifiable reasoning of "personal responsibility".

Here's what you need to do in order to make a substantive argument. You need to produce serious data which shows that blacks are avoiding all these solid job opportunities in their areas, and forgoing quality, top flight education in their neighborhoods in lieu of engaging in "deplorable behaviors". If you want the best for black people, why on earth wouldnt you demand jobs and a better education to serve the children, in conjunction with making demands that they perform when given opportunities? It seems blacks are just this social experiment, where we see how they react to very little resources, and ungodly amounts of discrimination, hostility, and racism.

You're putting words in my mouth, demonizing me based on my honest opinion, and you're wrong. I've already explained ad nauseum why I do not agree with the clamor and Cosby bashing that arose from the speech. Moreover, I've already explained why the collective anger towards Cosby from our community is unwarranted. I do not have the time nor the inclination to engage in a back-and-forth with you, especially because you're resorting to ad hominem attacks, flawed metaphors, and a cursory understanding of my previous posts. And your position is nonsensical.

N igga, I already told you that I'm done with you. Why won't you leave me the f uck alone?

 

[No_bammer_weed]

You're putting words in my mouth, demonizing me based on my honest opinion, and you're wrong

So you saying this earlier:

All I see in this thread are posters who enable counterproductive and deplorable behavior by pointing to systematic racism as justification for said behavior. The failure for certain people to look within themselves and take responsibility for their actions is simultaneously astounding and depressing.

....Isnt an attempt to demonize our opinions and put words in our mouths? Trying to claim we are enabling deplorable behavior and that we encourage irresponsibility isnt an attempt to incite rather than be insightful? People have offered very thoughtful rebuttals to your claims, and this is how you characterize their opinions? I usually dont agree with @Gravity, but he has your personality dead to rights. You're a lame ass bytch troll.

 

[sun raw]

all this shyt about how young people today are so lazy compared to the people of the '60s and '70s is some bullshyt, it's the complaining about 'millenials' but focused on a specific group

look i'm not going to claim that there weren't any great people doing great things back then but as a whole the previous generation, mostly baby boomers, fukked up everything for the current generation, leaving us to inherit their garbage so for them to be like 'you have no excuse, you should be pulling yourself up by your bootstraps' is some serious bullshyt

 

[William F. Russell]

So you saying this earlier:



....Isnt an attempt to demonize our opinions and put words in our mouths? Trying to claim we are enabling deplorable behavior and that we encourage irresponsibility isnt an attempt to incite rather than be insightful? People have offered very thoughtful rebuttals to your claims, and this is how you characterize their opinions? I usually dont agree with @Gravity, but he has your personality dead to rights. You're a lame ass bytch troll.

ignored.