Former Obama and Clinton Economic Advisers Tell Bernie To Cut The Bullshyt

[StatUS]

OK, taking this "revolution" into account, it would require an increase in the number of new voters and an increase in turnout when it actually comes time to vote but so far in the 2 early states that are most favorable to Bernie's campaign we have not had record turnout at all and there doesn't seem to be the broad coalition demographically that Bernie will need to accomplish what he wants. So how exactly can there be a political revolution of the size necessary to change the entire structure of our elected government if the numbers are not there?
Also a true political revolution will have to be more than just one guy at the top...what are the down ticket races that Bernie would want his followers to begin paying attention to? Are there candidates for seats in the House and Senate that have Bernie's same idealogy? If so is he helping to fund their campaigns so they can win their elections and be part of the revolution that Bernie himself says is necessary to accomplish his goals?

Well the point that I was making was that he isn't just selling people pie in sky to get elected he's actually asking for help from the people. The whole point of the establishments attacks is that he's just another politician selling fairy dust and unicorns. It's not about how the numbers will work out because they can it's because they feel he's a threat to their shenanigans. Now if Hilary comes out and states the truth and says, "Sanders plans aren't unrealistic they just would need too much voter participation to pass," that doesn't look as good as saying the numbers don't add up but mines do. It's politics so I got no problem with that. And in that same vain I agree with you on the down ticket, it shows that Bernie is still a politician also. It is a little unrealistic to think the DNC will just turn into a progressive party that wants to reign in wall street if Bernie beats Hilary. But he's betting on the people to change that, only time will tell if he gets what he wants.

 

[Jello Biafra]

Well the point that I was making was that he isn't just selling people pie in sky to get elected he's actually asking for help from the people. The whole point of the establishments attacks is that he's just another politician selling fairy dust and unicorns. It's not about how the numbers will work out because they can it's because they feel he's a threat to their shenanigans. Now if Hilary comes out and states the truth and says, "Sanders plans aren't unrealistic they just would need too much voter participation to pass," that doesn't look as good as saying the numbers don't add up but mines do. It's politics so I got no problem with that. And in that same vain I agree with you on the down ticket, it shows that Bernie is still a politician also. It is a little unrealistic to think the DNC will just turn into a progressive party that wants to reign in wall street if Bernie beats Hilary. But he's betting on the people to change that, only time will tell if he gets what he wants.

It is the whole revolution rhetoric where Bernie loses me because there is no such thing as a political revolution that begins and ends with the election of one establishment politician (and Bernie is establishment too because you don't spend 30 years in DC and chair 2 sub-committees unless you are part of the establishment). There is no revolution going on here; its just one lifelong politician trying to become president before he dies.

 

[Ms. Elaine]

An Open Letter from Past CEA Chairs to Senator Sanders and Professor Gerald Friedman

Yeah pretty much none of this guys economic claims or payment plans for his agenda actually add up and finally some respected economists have had enough.

That's been my biggest problem with him. He seems a tad bit too delusion.

He keeps making all these problems but never says shyt about how he's gonna get any of it done. The president does not have unilateral power in this country.


In a different world, I would be roasting his ass but I can't stand Hillary so I keep quiet.

 

[Broke Wave]

It is the whole revolution rhetoric where Bernie loses me because there is no such thing as a political revolution that begins and ends with the election of one establishment politician (and Bernie is establishment too because you don't spend 30 years in DC and chair 2 sub-committees unless you are part of the establishment). There is no revolution going on here; its just one lifelong politician trying to become president before he dies.

Okay, was FDR election and policies not a political revolution?

 

[StatUS]

It is the whole revolution rhetoric where Bernie loses me because there is no such thing as a political revolution that begins and ends with the election of one establishment politician (and Bernie is establishment too because you don't spend 30 years in DC and chair 2 sub-committees unless you are part of the establishment). There is no revolution going on here; its just one lifelong politician trying to become president before he dies.

I'd usually agree with you on that if he hasn't been saying the same things about the country for 30 years and has been right in alot of it. I think people like him and Warren just happened to be politicians because they feel that's the best way to change things. There are some good eggs once in awhile, but like I've said I don't think he's a saint or anything.

 

[Jello Biafra]

Okay, was FDR election and policies not a political revolution?

Different times and a different candidate though.
FDR was already very well known nationally before he ran for President, was fully supported by his Party, the country was coming out of the Great Depression, he was running against an unpopular incumbent President and FDR was able to put together a coalition that included every voter demographic in the country at the time.
None of those things are in place for Bernie.

 

[Broke Wave]

Different times and a different candidate though.
FDR was already very well known nationally before he ran for President, was fully supported by his Party, the country was coming out of the Great Depression, he was running against an unpopular incumbent President and FDR was able to put together a coalition that included every voter demographic in the country at the time.
None of those things are in place for Bernie.

These are different and desperate times. Money is overwhelming politics and the voters are rebelling against the parties. The republicans are going to nominate Trump and that in and of itself is incredible. There is a great concentration of wealth back then and poor economic conditions just like back then. The minority vote today is the same coaltion that was before. The minority vote today is an order of magnitude greater than it was back then. You can try and contrast them as much as you like but you know that these are extraordinary times.

 

[Tate]

It is the whole revolution rhetoric where Bernie loses me because there is no such thing as a political revolution that begins and ends with the election of one establishment politician (and Bernie is establishment too because you don't spend 30 years in DC and chair 2 sub-committees unless you are part of the establishment). There is no revolution going on here; its just one lifelong politician trying to become president before he dies.

Such a superficial argument, sanders campaign is about the coalition that's supporting him, not he himself. His campaign is a result of energies on the left that have ripened under the Obama administration; principally Occupy but also anti-fracking, ant-TSA, anti-war, and anti-police brutality groups. Being in congress doesn't necessarily make one a member of the establishment and it's certainly not true in this case. Jeremy Corbyn was in parliament for just as long as sanders was in congress, was he an establishment politician? Is Ted Cruz an establishment republican?

This isn't Obama vs Clinton, a battle between personalities and patronage machinery. This is a real ideological fault line in the Democratic Party. Sanders is a bellwether; his revolution rhetoric I s about 2018, 2020, 2022 and so on.

 

[rapbeats]

He's a populist, just like Trump. A good populist but he's playing with cats feelings, he won't be able to deliver on shyt. It'll work out economically speaking, but legally, lobbying, republicans and on will never back down. I would vote for him if I believed that he could deliver, however I'd rather see a sustainable change. If Hillary moves on with what Obama started and on, shyt might actually start happening.

this is the problem. if DC makes your stomach turn so much and you believe voting does mean something. why on earth do we keep voting down our own best interests? oh i know because well it will never happen. well guess what. if you never believe it. of course no one else will. thats the #1 thing in selling something. YOU have to believe it. If you dont believe in something you know YOU need and you need to sell it to others. it wont sell.

at what point do we get mad enough to Do something about it?(assuming we believe in voting.)

Do you know what it would take to pull off something like this? us voting in every friggin election we can. thats what. that means we would all have to get up off our butts and vote on every local election up to the state govy back to the DC.

But we dont see that reality. we see "too many red guys in DC to do anything. How did they get there? did they just walk to DC and that was that? NOPE. They promised their locals some nonsense Didnt really deliver, while also doing a nice bit of gerrymandering. oh by the way, when i say we, i aint just saying dems either. I'm talking about everyone who's crying the same song over and over about america, its economy, joblessness, high a.. bills, expensive college, expensive healthcare.

let me remind you, you just said if hilary continues what obama did..but wait. you also said congress wont budge on anything for bernie. wait a second, did i miss something here? Right now during Obeezy's 8 years. the congress has been on a campaign of do nothing to help him. yet he got some things done. yet you believe Hillary can get SOME things done. So why do you think bernie wouldnt be able to get ANYTHING of substance done in that same scenario?

Let me explain this to you. something you may not have thought about.

hillary is a minority aka a woman. You know WHITE men run america. White men dont want to answer/talk to a black man. but you know who they dont want to talk to at all even worse than a black man? a Woman.

So the same obstruction would continue with Hil. One thing crazy bernie has on his side is what? he's a WHITE..... MAN. This is something not being discussed. He has a better chance enacting some of his leftyist ideas then obama/Hil have trying to get some of their more centrist ideas thru simply based on the the fact he's a WHITE MAN.

Bernie looks like their father, grandfather, uncle, brother(for some of the older guys).

This means something.

So again, if you truly believe in what bernie is cooking. and you see yourself voting. then vote for the guy with your best interests. stop 2nd guessing yourself and playing the devil's game of "well devil 1 is better than devil 2... no way the angle would get anything done in hell."

Stop being afraid to see what would happen. you manned up and voted for a black president regardless of what he could ACTUALLY get done did you not?

So whats the difference now?
If Hillary is Obama 2.0. Congress is obstruction 2.0

You might as well throw a haymaker with Bernie then. what do we have to lose at this point?

 

[Harry B]

this is the problem. if DC makes your stomach turn so much and you believe voting does mean something. why on earth do we keep voting down our own best interests? oh i know because well it will never happen. well guess what. if you never believe it. of course no one else will. thats the #1 thing in selling something. YOU have to believe it. If you dont believe in something you know YOU need and you need to sell it to others. it wont sell.

at what point do we get mad enough to Do something about it?(assuming we believe in voting.)

Do you know what it would take to pull off something like this? us voting in every friggin election we can. thats what. that means we would all have to get up off our butts and vote on every local election up to the state govy back to the DC.

But we dont see that reality. we see "too many red guys in DC to do anything. How did they get there? did they just walk to DC and that was that? NOPE. They promised their locals some nonsense Didnt really deliver, while also doing a nice bit of gerrymandering. oh by the way, when i say we, i aint just saying dems either. I'm talking about everyone who's crying the same song over and over about america, its economy, joblessness, high a.. bills, expensive college, expensive healthcare.

let me remind you, you just said if hilary continues what obama did..but wait. you also said congress wont budge on anything for bernie. wait a second, did i miss something here? Right now during Obeezy's 8 years. the congress has been on a campaign of do nothing to help him. yet he got some things done. yet you believe Hillary can get SOME things done. So why do you think bernie wouldnt be able to get ANYTHING of substance done in that same scenario?

Let me explain this to you. something you may not have thought about.

hillary is a minority aka a woman. You know WHITE men run america. White men dont want to answer/talk to a black man. but you know who they dont want to talk to at all even worse than a black man? a Woman.

So the same obstruction would continue with Hil. One thing crazy bernie has on his side is what? he's a WHITE..... MAN. This is something not being discussed. He has a better chance enacting some of his leftyist ideas then obama/Hil have trying to get some of their more centrist ideas thru simply based on the the fact he's a WHITE MAN.

Bernie looks like their father, grandfather, uncle, brother(for some of the older guys).

This means something.

So again, if you truly believe in what bernie is cooking. and you see yourself voting. then vote for the guy with your best interests. stop 2nd guessing yourself and playing the devil's game of "well devil 1 is better than devil 2... no way the angle would get anything done in hell."

Stop being afraid to see what would happen. you manned up and voted for a black president regardless of what he could ACTUALLY get done did you not?

So whats the difference now?
If Hillary is Obama 2.0. Congress is obstruction 2.0

You might as well throw a haymaker with Bernie then. what do we have to lose at this point?

You make some good pints but IMO Obama achieved a lot, I don't know why Hillary couldn't. She has more experience than Obama had and more friends in Washington and around the world for that matter. We would have a first man that's even more respected than the future president, it'll be Mr and Mrs. President. I want a united democratic party, Bernie is not even respected by his own party, which is a slight problem.

At the end of the day, whoever wins will most likely not affect me unless it's a republican. I'll be working in London for a few years and will most likely have a rather good situation in a business in which Bernie would be the worst for my personal interests. I'm lucky to be where I am and the opportunities I've had so I'm voting for the whole nation not my own interests and I think the Clintons have the best chance of directing the country in the right direction. I'd rather take 10 degrees in the right direction with certainty, than 20 degrees in the right direction with 75 % chance of failing completely. I'm being risk averse, if Bernie fails the republicans might have a good chance to once again fukking up everything in 2020.

 

[NZA]

i didnt see one number in that letter so i have no idea what to make of it other than it looks like hillary's defense force is worried

 

[Geek Nasty]

An Open Letter from Past CEA Chairs to Senator Sanders and Professor Gerald Friedman

Yeah pretty much none of this guys economic claims or payment plans for his agenda actually add up and finally some respected economists have had enough.

This is my big problem with Sanders. Yeah, he's brave enough to talk abotu the real problems in this country, but he's speaking in cartoon solutions. You've got to have credibility in your numbers. I hate Hillary enough to *almost* vote for a Republican, but I don't think Sanders is a practical candidate.

 

[Jello Biafra]

Such a superficial argument, sanders campaign is about the coalition that's supporting him, not he himself. His campaign is a result of energies on the left that have ripened under the Obama administration; principally Occupy but also anti-fracking, ant-TSA, anti-war, and anti-police brutality groups. Being in congress doesn't necessarily make one a member of the establishment and it's certainly not true in this case. Jeremy Corbyn was in parliament for just as long as sanders was in congress, was he an establishment politician? Is Ted Cruz an establishment republican?

This isn't Obama vs Clinton, a battle between personalities and patronage machinery. This is a real ideological fault line in the Democratic Party. Sanders is a bellwether; his revolution rhetoric I s about 2018, 2020, 2022 and so on.

My argument isn't superficial at all, cynical yes but not superficial.
And what is Sanders doing to get this revolution kickstarted aside from making sure Bernie Sanders becomes president? Not a damn thing. And I will believe that this is more than people buying into the hip political fad of the moment when I see any evidence to the contrary.
Calling this a revolution is laughable.

 

[Tate]

[

My argument isn't superficial at all, cynical yes but not superficial.
And what is Sanders doing to get this revolution kickstarted aside from making sure Bernie Sanders becomes president? Not a damn thing. And I will believe that this is more than people buying into the hip political fad of the moment when I see any evidence to the contrary.
Calling this a revolution is laughable.

Sanders has a theory of change. You seize the executive with big, bold plans and rhetoric. Then use your pulpit to browbeat legislators into action or demonstrate their ineffectiveness; either converting or replacing individuals. If this is done, then you enact your plans.

It's hard and probably unlikely, but it's a genuine theory of change. It's what he did to successful ends in Burlington. A city is hardly a country yea but it's atleast a plan. What's HRC's plan to enact her legislative agenda? Negotiating is a dead art in a party system that makes sense.

Campaigns operate as networking centers. The Goldwater campaign in 64, though a profound defeat for the GOP, brought together conservative forces that stayed together and ultimately flipped the entire political axis of this country. Sanders has run the first genuine left wing campaign since probably Jesse Jackson in 88, and looks to have more success than even Jesse. That matters, getting people on lists matters, getting people involved matters, inroads with working class voters matter.

Most importantly sanders demonstrates that left economics is a winning issue within the Democratic Party. This is important. You show issues win and people start to campaign on them. Political fads matter too, even if sanders is just that. Most deride the Tea a party as a fad. That fad won 1000+ legislative seats in 4 years and shifted the entire window right by leaps and bounds.

 

[Deutsche Bank]

@88m3 will you "adjust" your prices to adequately address Sanders's tax plan, or will you eat the increased expense? You think your crew will raise fees, @Domingo Halliburton?