Klyk21
Hate is Rising, Love is Dying....
Still ain't heard that "terrorist" title thrown at this piece of shyt...
Germanwings A320 plane crash in southern France (150 dead) update:co-pilot deliberately crashed it
- Thread starter CHL
- Start date
RealAssanova
Vagitarian
yup. To you, your approach might seem logical, but to those in the industry, it simply cannot happen. First of all, have you seen the size of some of these flight decks?
that is a CRJ-200. You can see the seats touching the backwall. Where can you possibly install a toilet?
This is the cockpit of an a320, the exact same aircraft that went into the french alps.
again, tell me in all that room, where airbus can install a bathroom?
you can't.
that is why bathrooms tend to be directly behind the cockpit door, so it isn't so far away from the flight deck in the event something happens that needs the pilots immediate attention. Even crew rests areas on long-hauls are located by the cockpit door and not inside the cockpit, for the same reason.
at the end of the day, you cannot totally eliminate risk when it comes to aviation. You can minimize it by doing things like above, but not eliminate it completely.
if we applied your logic, then planes would've been equipped with parachutes or even a flotation device attached on the fuselage by now. Unfortunately, its not that straight forward in such a massive industry.
i'm so
by this story.
RealAssanova
Vagitarian
that's cuz he never did it purposely. That flight was purposely brought down either as a result of mechanical failure in the rudder or elevator or by explosion. 30 high ranking egyptian military officials that were heading back home after training in the U.S were on board.
the pilot was saying the shahada, which every muslim would say if they are about to die. The FBI, NTSB and American officials can
with that report.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
that's cuz he never did it purposely. That flight was purposely brought down either as a result of mechanical failure in the rudder or elevator or by explosion. 30 high ranking egyptian military officials that were heading back home after training in the U.S were on board.
the pilot was saying the shahada, which every muslim would say if they are about to die. The FBI, NTSB and American officials can
Right? I say the shahada before I cross the street.
the argument that there is no space is ridiculous. if the airlines removed one row or even one half of a row they could easily add the space to fit a single porta potty that would have literally saved everyone's life. the dimensions of which are as follows:yup. To you, your approach might seem logical, but to those in the industry, it simply cannot happen. First of all, have you seen the size of some of these flight decks?
that is a CRJ-200. You can see the seats touching the backwall. Where can you possibly install a toilet?
This is the cockpit of an a320, the exact same aircraft that went into the french alps.
again, tell me in all that room, where airbus can install a bathroom?
you can't.
that is why bathrooms tend to be directly behind the cockpit door, so it isn't so far away from the flight deck in the event something happens that needs the pilots immediate attention. Even crew rests areas on long-hauls are located by the cockpit door and not inside the cockpit, for the same reason.
at the end of the day, you cannot totally eliminate risk when it comes to aviation. You can minimize it by doing things like above, but not eliminate it completely.
if we applied your logic, then planes would've been equipped with parachutes or even a flotation device attached on the fuselage by now. Unfortunately, its not that straight forward in such a massive industry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_toilet
- Total Weight: 90 kg (200 lb) - 110 kg (240 lb)
- Total Width : 1,166 mm (45.9 in)
- Total Depth : 1,215 mm (47.8 in)
- Total Height : 2,316 mm (91.2 in)
- Door Height : 1,975 mm (77.8 in)
- Door Width : 639 mm (25.2 in)
are you trying to argue that airlines cant create space on an airplane of 35 inches? thirty five inches. the airlines wouldnt even need to pay to a have an actual waste system installed as an actual generic porta potty would easily fulfill the needs of the only two people that would need to even use it.
again.... thirty five inches.... count every inch because it was the difference between 150 people living and 150 people being murdered by a lunatic who literally planned everything around his co pilot needing to go pee outside of the cockpit to the point that it was all a matter of literally just waiting for him to leave to go do it.
your argument is ridiculous and you completely ignored the point that suicidal pilots are statistically relevant to overall flight safety and related protocols that airlines have for this issue as they exist right now will cause this event to eventually happen again. your solution seems to be that a 35 inch porta potty that could have averted this disaster would have been too expensive...
i cant believe that i have to argue this with you and if you still refuse to admit how ridiculous your argument is i won't continue to. by the way this is how big airplanes are...
i think there might be an extra 35 inches in there
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The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) recorded the captain excusing himself to go to the lavatory, followed thirty seconds later by the first officer saying in Egyptian Arabic "Tawkalt ala Allah," which translates to "I rely on God." A minute later, the autopilot was disengaged, immediately followed by the first officer again saying, "I rely on God." Three seconds later, the throttles for both engines were reduced to idle, and both elevators were moved three degrees nose down. The first officer repeated "I rely on God" seven more times before the captain suddenly asked repeatedly, "What's happening, what's happening?" The flight data recorder reflected that the elevators then moved into a split condition, with the left elevator up and the right elevator down, a condition which is expected to result when the two control columns are subjected to at least 50 pounds (23 kgf) of opposing force.[1] At this point, both engines were shut down by moving the start levers from run to cutoff. The captain asked, "What is this? What is this? Did you shut the engines?" The captain is then recorded as saying "get away in the engines" (this is the literal translation that appears in the NTSB transcript), followed by "shut the engines". The first officer replies "It's shut". The final recorded words are the captain repeatedly stating, "Pull with me" but the FDR data indicated that the elevator surfaces remained in a split condition (with the left surface commanding nose up and the right surface commanding nose down) until the FDR and CVR stopped recording. There were no other aircraft in the area. There was no indication that an explosion occurred on board. The engines operated normally for the entire flight until they were shut down. From the presence of a western debris field about 1,200 feet (370 m) from the eastern debris field, the NTSB concluded that the left engine and some small pieces of wreckage separated from the aircraft at some point before water impactthat's cuz he never did it purposely. That flight was purposely brought down either as a result of mechanical failure in the rudder or elevator or by explosion. 30 high ranking egyptian military officials that were heading back home after training in the U.S were on board.
the pilot was saying the shahada, which every muslim would say if they are about to die. The FBI, NTSB and American officials can
RealAssanova
Vagitarian
the argument that there is no space is simply ridiculous. if the airlines removed one row or even one half of a row they could easily add the space to fit the dimensions of a single porta potty (that would have literally saved everyone's life) which are as follows:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portable_toilet
- Total Weight: 90 kg (200 lb) - 110 kg (240 lb)
- Total Width : 1,166 mm (45.9 in)
- Total Depth : 1,215 mm (47.8 in)
- Total Height : 2,316 mm (91.2 in)
- Door Height : 1,975 mm (77.8 in)
- Door Width : 639 mm (25.2 in)
are you trying to argue that airlines cant create space on an airplane of 35 inches? thirty five inches. the airlines wouldnt even need to pay to a have an actual waste system installed as an actual generic porta potty would easily fulfill the needs of the only two people that would need to even use it.
again.... thirty five inches.... count every inch because it was the difference between 150 people living and 150 people being murdered by a lunatic who literally planned everything around his co pilot needing to go pee outside of the cockpit to the point that it was all a matter of literally just waiting for him to go do it.
your argument is ridiculous and you completely ignored the point that suicidal pilots are statistically relevant to overall flight safety and related protocols that airlines have for this issue as they exist right now will cause this event to eventually happen again. your solution seems to be that a 35 inch porta potty that could have averted this disaster would have been too expensive...
i cant believe that i have to argue this with you and if you still refuse to admit how ridiculous your argument i will not continue to. by the way this is how big airplanes are...
i think there might be an extra 35 inches in there
again, you are assuming that risk can be totally eliminated. Is pilot-suicide a risk? absolutely. Do you think aircraft manufacturers don't know this?
Your assumption again just minimizes this "specific" risk of pilot-suicide but does not completely eliminate it.
What if a pilot is hell bent on committing on suicide? Surely they will do whatever it takes to achieve just that. Having another person in the cockpit just makes it more difficult. So in this sense, what's the point of having a portable potty installed, if in your view, it should stop a maniac pilot from ditching the plane?
what about mechanical failure? what if something happened to an aircraft that could've been otherwise saved had there been some sort of parachute mechanism installed?
nothing is straight forward in the aviation industry. You think there aren't people like you out there thinking the same? There is wishful thinking and then there is practicality. Everything has a cost. There are hundreds of thousands of aircraft in operation today. To take all of them out to install a "portable potty" would not only cost the airline both in terms of installing the unit but they'd also be losing money for having the planes grounded.
i am making a mental note to never engage you on this forum againheres an example of relevant protocol during a suicidal pilot event: one extra security attendant in cockpit (may or may not be flight attendant) with a thirty five inch porta potty structure to maintain a constant three man presence within the cockpit at all times.
once again...thirty five inches...i cant believe you are proposing to have all this knowledge of how airlines and airplanes operate to make the argument that cockpits are too small to add thirty five inches of space yet excessively large first class seating arrangements are just fine
your argument that just because it doesnt happen very often we shouldn't pay the cost (a 35 inch porta potty) to avert a risk which will statistically happen again because it would be too expensive for the airlines is psychopathic
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joeychizzle
光復香港，時代革命
doesn't the coli ever cease to amaze you?
heres an example of relevant protocol during a suicidal pilot event: one extra security attendant in cockpit (may or may not be flight attendant) with a thirty five inch porta potty structure to maintain a constant three man presence within the cockpit at all times.
once again...thirty five inches...i cant believe you are proposing to have all this knowledge of how airlines and airplanes operate to make the argument that cockpits are too small to add thirty five inches of space yet excessively large first class seating arrangements are just fine
your argument that just because it doesnt happen very often we shouldn't pay the cost (a 35 inch porta potty) to avert a risk which will statistically happen again because it would be too expensive for the airlines is psychopathic
RealAssanova
Vagitarian
The cockpit voice recorder (CVR) recorded the captain excusing himself to go to the lavatory, followed thirty seconds later by the first officer saying in Egyptian Arabic "Tawkalt ala Allah," which translates to "I rely on God." A minute later, the autopilot was disengaged, immediately followed by the first officer again saying, "I rely on God." Three seconds later, the throttles for both engines were reduced to idle, and both elevators were moved three degrees nose down. The first officer repeated "I rely on God" seven more times before the captain suddenly asked repeatedly, "What's happening, what's happening?" The flight data recorder reflected that the elevators then moved into a split condition, with the left elevator up and the right elevator down, a condition which is expected to result when the two control columns are subjected to at least 50 pounds (23 kgf) of opposing force.[1] At this point, both engines were shut down by moving the start levers from run to cutoff. The captain asked, "What is this? What is this? Did you shut the engines?" The captain is then recorded as saying "get away in the engines" (this is the literal translation that appears in the NTSB transcript), followed by "shut the engines". The first officer replies "It's shut". The final recorded words are the captain repeatedly stating, "Pull with me" but the FDR data indicated that the elevator surfaces remained in a split condition (with the left surface commanding nose up and the right surface commanding nose down) until the FDR and CVR stopped recording. There were no other aircraft in the area. There was no indication that an explosion occurred on board. The engines operated normally for the entire flight until they were shut down. From the presence of a western debris field about 1,200 feet (370 m) from the eastern debris field, the NTSB concluded that the left engine and some small pieces of wreckage separated from the aircraft at some point before water impact
nikka, FOH with that bullshyt.
But since you ignorant, lemme educate you and let's examine the suicide theory. Imagine that Batouti's motive was money. If he hoped to collect insurance money to care for his family, why would he basically announce to the world that he was committing suicide? Certainly, his family would have a better chance of collecting it if he did not announce that he was taking his own life, right?
secondly, suicide is a mortal sin in Islam, and anyone who commits this act does not make it to heaven. So it would be highly unlikely that a man of deep religious conviction would do the one thing that would keep him from paradise in the afterlife.
lets get technical now. They said he cut the engines off right?
The plane lurched forward, into a dramatic dive (more than 40 degrees). The plane reaches it's maximum speed (Mach 0.86 -- the maximum safe cruising speed of the aircraft) in the first few seconds. The engines are then throttled back, exactly the opposite of what a suicidal pilot would do, as this maneuver would slow the plane's descent. This behavior is only consistent with a controlled (though extreme) emergency dive, which was what the plane was in. It is at this point that the master warning comes on, and the engine oil pressure indicator comes on showing low. Shortly thereafter, the planes elevators -- the control surfaces on the empennage designed to point the plane up or down -- are found to be in a "split" configuration (the shyt you highlighted 
). This has been spun as a sign that the pilot and co-pilot were fighting each other for control of the aircraft, since with enough pressure on the control column they can be operated separately. Now, what if the pilot, upon re-entering the cockpit, was thrown violently against the control column as he attempted to regain his seat (as the plane would have been in zero-g, with everyone and everything in the plane completely weightless.)? The sheer buffeting of the aircraft, from the shock waves creeping back over the wings at Mach 0.86, would have been almost unimaginably violent. So for the pilot to even get back into the cockpit under those conditions, would have been something of a feat. So therefore it is fair to assume that the pilot fell violently against the control column as he attempted to regain control and probably would have taken several seconds for him to regain his senses and begin to assist the co-pilot in pulling out of the dive. This idea is further supported by the voice recorder, which indicates no argument between the two pilots. Infact, the pilot is heard to say clearly "Pull with me. Help me. Pull with me." This apparently is exactly what happened. The plane ascended to a descent angle of only about 10 degrees (from the original 40 degrees), and both elevators were by then back in unison. This sequence of events strongly points to the fact that the pilots were valiantly working together to save the aircraft, not fighting over who was in control of it. 
Next and more importantly, if the engines were shut off by the pilot, how the fukk can the plane climb over 7,600 feet before entering into a dive again? How did this aircraft (WITHOUT THOSE CRUCIAL PRATT & WHITNEY ENGINES) subsequently (and according to six independent Air Force radar stations) manage to climb back up from 16,700 feet to 24,000 feet almost a mile and a half (against gravity) from the bottom of its suicidal dive?
does that fukkin sound like someone tryna kill himself and 200+ others or pilots trying to save themselves, passengers and the plane?
nikka, FOH with that bullshyt.
But since you ignorant, lemme educate you and let's examine the suicide theory. Imagine that Batouti's motive was money. If he hoped to collect insurance money to care for his family, why would he basically announce to the world that he was committing suicide? Certainly, his family would have a better chance of collecting it if he did not announce that he was taking his own life, right?
secondly, suicide is a mortal sin in Islam, and anyone who commits this act does not make it to heaven. So it would be highly unlikely that a man of deep religious conviction would do the one thing that would keep him from paradise in the afterlife.
lets get technical now. They said he cut the engines off right?
Next and more importantly, if the engines were shut off by the pilot, how the fukk can the plane climb over 7,600 feet before entering into a dive again? How did this aircraft (WITHOUT THOSE CRUCIAL PRATT & WHITNEY ENGINES) subsequently (and according to six independent Air Force radar stations) manage to climb back up from 16,700 feet to 24,000 feet almost a mile and a half (against gravity) from the bottom of its suicidal dive?
does that fukkin sound like someone tryna kill himself and 200+ others or pilots trying to save themselves, passengers and the plane?
i believe the usas investigation, not the country who told the usa to do the investigation and only got involved when they didnt like the results
they never had the capability of investigating this crash
RealAssanova
Vagitarian
heres an example of relevant protocol during a suicidal pilot event: one extra security attendant in cockpit (may or may not be flight attendant) with a thirty five inch porta potty structure to maintain a constant three man presence within the cockpit at all times.
once again...thirty five inches...i cant believe you are proposing to have all this knowledge of how airlines and airplanes operate to make the argument that cockpits are too small to add thirty five inches of space yet excessively large first class seating arrangements are just fine
your argument that just because it doesnt happen very often we shouldn't pay the cost (a 35 inch porta potty) to avert a risk which will statistically happen again because it would be too expensive for the airlines is psychopathic
nikka, you ain't making no fukkin sense. Who the hell are you trying to rationalize to?
if your solution was even remotely possible, why haven't aircraft manufacturers done this? especially since the risk of pilot-suicide always existed? your saying aircraft manufacturers should take first class out and essentially create a bigger cockpit to include a 35 inch portable potty. Now, i'm telling you that IT IS NOT REALISTICALLY POSSIBLE. Do you not understand that Airbus would have to do this to every single A320 just to satisfy you?
From an airlines point of view, what's the cost-benefit of it? The benefit is it reduces a risk that already exists and will continue to exist. At the same time, that specific aircraft has to be taken out of service just to install this portable unit. Which means that aircraft is grounded and not in the air making money.
How is that so hard to understand?
Your problem is, you cannot rationalize and see thing from an airlines perspective. Rather you just see things from a passenger's perspective.
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Next and more importantly, if the engines were shut off by the pilot, how the fukk can the plane climb over 7,600 feet before entering into a dive again? How did this aircraft (WITHOUT THOSE CRUCIAL PRATT & WHITNEY ENGINES) subsequently (and according to six independent Air Force radar stations) manage to climb back up from 16,700 feet to 24,000 feet almost a mile and a half (against gravity) from the bottom of its suicidal dive?
Underneath the graphic that you're basing it on an official said it would be physically impossible.
Does the timeframe given support that it climbed again or is it most likely a "glitch" of some sort.