Giannis vs Jokic watch...

[murksiderock]

Halfway thru the 20s almost, and I think it's pretty clear these are the two that have separated above the competition. Whether due to old greats aging out:

LeBron, Steph, Durant, Kawhi, Harden

Or due to less consistency via injury or playoff ineffectiveness:

Tatum, Luka, Embiid

And with a half-decade left I guess there's still time to see if the following guys ascend to this level:

SGA, Ant

But as it stands now, I think these two are the guys who've proven for a half-decade they are the best players alive. Who do you think is better now, Jokic or Giannis, who do you think will be better going forward, who when it's all said and done, 10 years from now, will we look back and say was the better player career-for-career? And why?

 

[murksiderock]

For my part, I have them as relative equals. I think there is little separation regardless of who gets to a third MVP or second title first. If one guy starts smoking the other, then there's clear separation but I don't think there is at this point...

Just to put some context to both currently, here are their primes to-date:

Prime Giannis (2016-present)
•'21 champ, '21 FMVP, 2x MVP (soon-to-be 6x Top 5 finishes), '21 AMVP, '20 DPOY, '17 MIP
•*about to be*8x All-NBA (6x 1st), 8x All-Star, 5x All-D (4x 1st)
•1-0 Finals, 1-1 ECF
•has led Bucks to an average of 52.3 wins/year, including 2x 60 wins, 3x 50 wins, on pace for ~53 wins this year
•plays 71 games/year, on pace for ~78 games played this year

I think we often forget how long Giannis has been around, he's in Year 11! And I think we forget how long he's been a great player, this is now 8 prime years now, he's closing in on a decade...

Prime Jokic (2018-present)
•'23 champ, '23 FMVP, 2x MVP (soon-to-be 5x Top 5 finishes)
•*soon-to-be*6x All-NBA (4x 1st), 6x All-Star
•1-0 Finals, 1-1 WCF
•has led Nuggets to an average of 52.2 wins/year, including 4x 50 wins, on pace for ~56 wins this year
•plays 77.4 games/year; on pace to play ~78 games this year

 

[murksiderock]

@Professor Emeritus @ISO

How do yall view the current and potentially future career arcs of these two?

 

[Flex Grossman]

Hope we get a couple head to head finals matchups in the next few years

 

[Jplaya2023]

Hope we get a couple head to head finals matchups in the next few years

This. The old guard is done winning ships and the young guns are 2 green to win anything.

Embiid stay hurt so thats another man down

 

[THE 101]

Hope we get a couple head to head finals matchups in the next few years

This Bucks team doesn't have many seasons left as contenders.

 

[murksiderock]

This Bucks team doesn't have many seasons left as contenders.

In its current iteration, no. But you have to think that as long as you have Giannis playing at current level, you can easily build a contender around him...

 

[Slaimon Khan Shah]

Nikola Jokic!

 

[Regular_P]

Jokic because I know he's getting a good look for himself or a teammate whenever he wants, especially in crunch time.

I think Milwaukee's flameout against Miami last year got swept away too quickly with "well, Giannis was hurt. He came back in game four when they were down 2-1 and had a double digit lead going into the fourth quarter of that game (11) AND game five (16!).

Giannis' final stat lines were 26/10/13 on 12/22 shooting with 6 TOs and 38/20/3 on 14/27 shooting (10-23 from the line...) with 7 TOs.

Fourth quarter numbers of those games:

Game 4: 2 points, 1-4 shooting, 5 assists. Brook Lopez took 9 shots in that fourth!
Game 5: 4 points, 1-9 shooting, 2-5 from the line, 1 assist.

And on the other end, Jimmy channeled Michael Jordan in those fourths.

 

[Ukbrotha]

I think Jokic will edge him for it. Plus I don't like the bucks immediate future for a title.

 

[Illin Degenerate]

jokic is the answer now, id say he has a better resume because he could/should have won mvp last year so he was already closer to a 3rd mvp and hes once again closer to another mvp this season whether he or shai ultimately gets it. i thought giannis play took a step back last year despite his scoring going up and still putting up monster numbers. this year i feel hes back at an mvp type level with his efficiency going up, ast/to ratio being better, more steals/blocks, and its showing in the 2nd best on/off rating of his career.

i think it will be jokc going forward, but who knows maybe giannis shakes off the disappointment of the past 2 postseasons and takes his game up a level.

 

[Nero Christ]

Jokic will get the edge historically cause his playstyle lends itself to being able to consistently build solid chip contenders around him. Jokic is kind of like Pep Guardiola where the system can sustain success anywhere it goes with whatever players are around. Only thing you really need around Jokic is tough shot making wing player.

Giannis on the other hand while a generational talent...you have to be a lot more creative with the type of talent you put around him to elevate the team.

 

[murksiderock]

Jokic because I know he's getting a good look for himself or a teammate whenever he wants, especially in crunch time.

I think Milwaukee's flameout against Miami last year got swept away too quickly with "well, Giannis was hurt. He came back in game four when they were down 2-1 and had a double digit lead going into the fourth quarter of that game (11) AND game five (16!).

Giannis' final stat lines were 26/10/13 on 12/22 shooting with 6 TOs and 38/20/3 on 14/27 shooting (10-23 from the line...) with 7 TOs.

Fourth quarter numbers of those games:

Game 4: 2 points, 1-4 shooting, 5 assists. Brook Lopez took 9 shots in that fourth!
Game 5: 4 points, 1-9 shooting, 2-5 from the line, 1 assist.

And on the other end, Jimmy channeled Michael Jordan in those fourths.

You'll know I've been on this for years now, Giannis is more of a Regular Season Warrior than an playoff guy. He's closer to James Harden in the playoffs than he is to his consistent regular season self, which is part and parcel of the problem with the elevation people gave him in 2021...

You don't have just one postseason, or two, or three. You've got a habitual resume of playing lower than expected with him, that you just don't have with Jokic...

What I will say is, there is still time for him to turn it around and even with these flaws I view he and Jokic as interchangeable for who the best player is, which probably means Giannis is the better player in a vacuum, since Jokic doesn't have those playoff chokes and still has little to no separation from Giannis, player to player...

Now, Jokic starts stacking up titles while Giannis is stuck at 1, I think would be a marker of real separation...

 

[FTBS]

Jokic because I know he's getting a good look for himself or a teammate whenever he wants, especially in crunch time.

I think Milwaukee's flameout against Miami last year got swept away too quickly with "well, Giannis was hurt. He came back in game four when they were down 2-1 and had a double digit lead going into the fourth quarter of that game (11) AND game five (16!).

Giannis' final stat lines were 26/10/13 on 12/22 shooting with 6 TOs and 38/20/3 on 14/27 shooting (10-23 from the line...) with 7 TOs.

Fourth quarter numbers of those games:

Game 4: 2 points, 1-4 shooting, 5 assists. Brook Lopez took 9 shots in that fourth!
Game 5: 4 points, 1-9 shooting, 2-5 from the line, 1 assist.

And on the other end, Jimmy channeled Michael Jordan in those fourths.

Giannis gotta wear that but that likely doesnt happen with Jamal Murray on his team. We cant forget we was having that "do it in the playoffs" talk about Joker just last year...coincidentally after two years without Murray in the playoffs.

 

[murksiderock]

Giannis gotta wear that but that likely doesnt happen with Jamal Murray on his team. We cant forget we was having that "do it in the playoffs" talk about Joker just last year...coincidentally after two years without Murray in the playoffs.

Some of us, including myself, were never on that because we were watching Jokic's actual performances in the postseason. He was never the problem. This was akin to people criticizing Cleveland I LeBron, that LeBron was never the reason Cleveland couldn't win a championship...