Give me a legit reason teachers shouldn't be paid more.

[CACarot]

Once again, if it is so cushy and such easy money, why don't you do it cac?

Thats not the argument. So what point are you making ?...cause so far it seems like no point at all. I've stated the job has its own stressors but we are getting out of hand with some of this teacher stuff. My job and career are just fine for me not to have to consider teaching as an option. But if somebody else needs to they can go ahead it doesn't take much.

That's your opinion. Two different types of difficulty/stress breh, it's like comparing apples to oranges. I'd rather be responsible for defending a client any day of the week than teach at the worst high school in Chicago.

I understand its a matter of preference on a certain level, but for example lawyer as a profession in general is more stressful. Lawyers generally work way over 40 hrs a week, don't get holidays or summers like teachers. Not every teacher is teaching urban kids in chicago, so thats already a limited view you have. I think you could argue if you are a lawyer worth your name there is more stress about knowing you have a direct part in a mans freedom, the laws in court cases that could set the precedent for millions of people in the future. They usually have much more crippling debt to go with low salaries compared to teachers. Lawyers are also incredibly prone than most other professions to become alcoholics and depressed (seriously these are facts)

This post is ignorant as hell. There's a lack of teachers becuz the job has become harder and they still get paid like shyt. Many teachers have Masters degrees so Idk where this lack of expertise comes in. It's truly a position you have to love with all the bullshyt they have to put up with. On top of that much of their work comes home. The ones who aren't passionate about it don't last long

Lack of teachers are from a mixture reasons. Pay is one, bad kids is another, lack of resources, etc. etc. My point is this, teachers don't really deserve much higher levels of pay as a profession because they have a skill/career/ability that is not special enough to warrant it. I understand that does not sound nice , but higher paying jobs have the things I listed. A teacher can be replaced easily and quickly if needed. Some of you peoples gripes are more representative of the educational system and not purely on teachers. Heres my point I'm not a teacher but if you dropped me in a class of 3rd graders and told me to run this with a curriculum, I could do it and anybody else could get by with it. I'm not a lawyer but you tell me or anybody else to represent this client in a criminal proceeding, you will easily tell we shouldn't be in that room. My point is teachers are easier replaced (in regards to what they do) than other professions.

 

[King Crimson]

But were talking about teachers, other professions are irrelevant. But I do think you should be paid by performance, in general.
What's a doubt teacher?
Even the work she brings home doesn't amount to the time other people spend in a real 9-5. She might spend an 1-1.5 hours on Sunday making test plans for the rest of the week. She grades tests while watching tv anyway, its not like she's grading dissertations or engineering reports. Its 5th grade

Meant to say dope. My fault.
And maybe that's why. I'm teaching high school. I got papers to grade, lesson plans to either write (for my self contained), or differentiate (for my ICT), at this time of year, helping cats with recommendation letters, helping stragglers write college essays that they should have done 2-3 months ago. All types of shyt. Respect to moms though.

 

[The Mad Titan]

If teachers got paid more you probably see a jump in quality.


Doing something For the love only gets you so much and for so long

 

[YaBoy]

Meant to say dope. My fault.
And maybe that's why. I'm teaching high school. I got papers to grade, lesson plans to either write (for my self contained), or differentiate (for my ICT), at this time of year, helping cats with recommendation letters, helping stragglers write college essays that they should have done 2-3 months ago. All types of shyt. Respect to moms though.

Yall still don't work much tho

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Lack of teachers are from a mixture reasons. Pay is one, bad kids is another, lack of resources, etc. etc. My point is this, teachers don't really deserve much higher levels of pay as a profession because they have a skill/career/ability that is not special enough to warrant it. I understand that does not sound nice , but higher paying jobs have the things I listed. A teacher can be replaced easily and quickly if needed. Some of you peoples gripes are more representative of the educational system and not purely on teachers. Heres my point I'm not a teacher but if you dropped me in a class of 3rd graders and told me to run this with a curriculum, I could do it and anybody else could get by with it. I'm not a lawyer but you tell me or anybody else to represent this client in a criminal proceeding, you will easily tell we shouldn't be in that room. My point is teachers are easier replaced (in regards to what they do) than other professions.

Your argument is flawed becuz teachers always have to go to workshops to sharpen their skills. Being able to effectively convey subject matter is a skill. People represent themselves in court all the time all it takes is an understanding of the law. But the justice system is big business so it pays well.

And for the record you cant just teach a 3rd grade class without majoring in elementary education. Teachers are responsible for helping to shape the minds of our youth. You could argue it's the most important profession there is

 

[YaBoy]

If teachers got paid more you probably see a jump in quality.


Doing something For the love only gets you so much and for so long

Nah. Maybe if they get rid of tenure & pay teachers by the performance of their students

 

[the cac mamba]

That isn't a terrible idea... On paper.

Again. Not true at all. All tenure does is guarantee you due process as opposed to, let's say a Charter school. They have "at will" employment and can fire you any time, any where, for any reason. With tenure, principals need to cite a teacher's continuous fukking up on the job before they can fire them. All that sounds like to me is the end of a probationary period. Also, tenure isn't granted automatically; at least not in NYC. Also, I've of many teachers that are actually discontinued by their principals (fired) if they do't get tenure in that time. So the notion that you can't get fired after 3 years is ridiculous. Please stop spreading this lie.

good post breh. id rep if we could

-what do you mean by on paper? i dont need to pull how many fukkin pension system are billions underfunded, we both know theyre there, but that trend is NOT gonna reverse itself. so unless someone is gonna come with a pension system where that cannot happen, we need to end or greatly reduce pensions and start paying that money up front. paying people until they die is ridiculous

as far as tenure, ive seen studies that say it costs so much money to fire a teacher with tenure that a lot of schools dont even try. so of course you CAN fire someone with tenure, but dont tell me im lying tenure means what it says and i think its an awful idea in general

and for the record, both of my parents are teachers ill probably personally be seeing that pension money, in some form some day

 

[CACarot]

Your argument is flawed becuz teachers always have to go to workshops to sharpen their skills. Being able to effectively convey subject matter is a skill. People represent themselves in court all the time all it takes is an understanding of the law. But the justice system is big business so it pays well.

And for the record you cant just teach a 3rd grade class without majoring in elementary education. Teachers are responsible for helping to shape the minds of our youth. You could argue it's the most important profession there is

People representing themselves does not mean they did so adequately or effectively. It just means legally they have the ability to which we can't do in teaching (minus home schooling) or many other professions. So you are flawed by over emphasis on that to begin with. Teaching has workshops and other stuff, but so does other professions lol. These things aren't unique to teaching, again you don't need a masters degree to teach, You don't even have to know the subject very well you are teaching. You foolishly believe teachers should have salaries comparable to healthcare professions. This just goes to show how terrible your understanding of what warrants professions high salaries. I do think , which I've stated teachers can get paid a little more , but not much. The fact remains many more people are qualified and capable to be a teacher than the healthcare professions you believe they should mirror in pay.

 

[The Mad Titan]

Nah. Maybe if they get rid of tenure & pay teachers by the performance of their students

Perhaps, but I'm a firm believe that people value they're job's more when its something worth losing or the its in high demand.


They're are plenty of people that are great with kids and love to teach that aren't going to look into the teaching because they aren't trying to so to school be in debt get out and make chump change and then raise a family with it.


Once the starting and max salary cap for teachers is up and its a "oh crap" this field pays and the turnover is low if you can get in, the dynamic of the profession changes.

Right now when hiring teachers its more a take what you can get, but once it becomes a more in demand job you can cherry pick a bit more.

 

[Timeis$]

The majority of them have every holiday off, summers off, every weekend off, and have a set schedule. Plenty of others do not...so I don't feel sorry for them. And no teachers aren't the only ones who have to take work home. They knew what the average pay was before going into the field but let's be real a lot of people become teachers because they can't hack a STEM major.

So I don't feel sorry for them based on the pay they knew what the average pay would be when they chose the profession.

 

[YaBoy]

Perhaps, but I'm a firm believe that people value they're job's more when its something worth losing or the its in high demand.


They're are plenty of people that are great with kids and love to teach that aren't going to look into the teaching because they aren't trying to so to school be in debt get out and make chump change and then raise a family with it.


Once the starting and max salary cap for teachers is up and its a "oh crap" this field pays and the turnover is low if you can get in, the dynamic of the profession changes.

Right now when hiring teachers its more a take what you can get, but once it becomes a more in demand job you can cherry pick a bit more.

Teachers are in high demand, but there isn't the money for more teachers in a lot of districts. & once a teacher does get hired, its difficult to fire them, so there's no incentive to be better once you get your tenure - unless you're doing it for the love

 

[GodinDaFlesh]

Lack of teachers are from a mixture reasons. Pay is one, bad kids is another, lack of resources, etc. etc. My point is this, teachers don't really deserve much higher levels of pay as a profession because they have a skill/career/ability that is not special enough to warrant it. I understand that does not sound nice , but higher paying jobs have the things I listed. A teacher can be replaced easily and quickly if needed. Some of you peoples gripes are more representative of the educational system and not purely on teachers. Heres my point I'm not a teacher but if you dropped me in a class of 3rd graders and told me to run this with a curriculum, I could do it and anybody else could get by with it. I'm not a lawyer but you tell me or anybody else to represent this client in a criminal proceeding, you will easily tell we shouldn't be in that room. My point is teachers are easier replaced (in regards to what they do) than other professions.

A teacher can be easily replaced temporarily because *someone* has to be in front of those kids when class starts. That doesn't mean that the person will be an effective teacher. Sure you could be dropped in a 3rd grade classroom, it doesn't mean you could properly convey the knowledge to the kids, let alone if we start talking high school physics, chemistry, calculus, world history, English, etc. The difference between a substitute teacher and a great, *real* teacher is day and night.

I can do my own taxes, that doesn't make me a good accountant.

I can defend myself in court, that doesn't make me a good lawyer.

 

[DrX]

all that shyt is BS anyway....they teach kids how to be slaves to this system

 

[Towlie]

I'm a teacher. There is no union and no tenure. I am an at will employee.

 

[King Crimson]

Yall still don't work much tho

If you say so. Not finna argue.

Nah. Maybe if they get rid of tenure & pay teachers by the performance of their students

When you tie performance solely to performance of the students, not only do you ignore certain factors, but you lead to things like that cheating scandal in ATL.

good post breh. id rep if we could

-what do you mean by on paper? i dont need to pull how many fukkin pension system are billions underfunded, we both know theyre there, but that trend is NOT gonna reverse itself. so unless someone is gonna come with a pension system where that cannot happen, we need to end or greatly reduce pensions and start paying that money up front. paying people until they die is ridiculous

as far as tenure, ive seen studies that say it costs so much money to fire a teacher with tenure that a lot of schools dont even try. so of course you CAN fire someone with tenure, but dont tell me im lying tenure means what it says and i think its an awful idea in general

and for the record, both of my parents are teachers ill probably personally be seeing that pension money, in some form some day

When I say on paper, I just meant that things usually sound good, til it's put into practice, then someone will find something to complain about. I agree with you on the bolded though.

To be fair though, tenure is one of those things that "sound good on paper". Again, it is only really supposed to be due process, but has become something that does protect some people who shouldn't be protected. That doesn't mean that the spirit/premise of tenure is bad in and of itself. We agree more than we disagree.

Spoiler

That tenure finna be lit next year. [/SPOILER

I'm a teacher. There is no union and no tenure. I am an at will employee.

You work at a charter?