Goku and Vegeta vs. Superman and Flash

[Draje]

@KaiserRexTheCzar, nice post but I think striking strength is easily Supes. He has ten times more impressive striking feats despite the universal shockwaves of Beerus (Who we know is still much stronger than Goku).

This has to match universal shockwaves. They're fracturing reality with the strength of these blows and we've seen Superman

 

[5n0man]

It can go either way, but Flash is a ghost in this fight, bad partner if they keep it in the air. Green Lantern would be better.

Flash can't go head up with them but there are countless ways for him to win with his skill set.

His infinite mass punch can hurt superman, so I wouldn't call him useless in that area. He could toss them into the speed force. And he can drain their energy without and they wouldn't be fast enough to stop him.

 

[Draje]

Flash can't go head up with them but there are countless ways for him to win with his skill set.

His infinite mass punch can hurt superman, so I wouldn't call him useless in that area. He could toss them into the speed force. And he can drain their energy without and they wouldn't be fast enough to stop him.

Honestly, he could just give speed to Superman and make him even faster or vibrate through their chests.

 

[Wolfgang-Zero]

People purposely misconstrue on both sides smh.
INCREDIBLY GEEKY POST INCOMING.
Assuming:
GOATku and Vegeta get DB,DBZ and DBS feats.
Superman and Flash get post-crisis, N52 and Rebirth feats.
Both series have inconsistent feats, but it's worse with Dragonball since it is one author as opposed to hundreds.

Strength
-Lifting Strength. Flash is the weakest here, a gap between Goku and Vegeta then a solar system sized wide gap between them and Superman. This only really matters for grappling tough.

Spoiler

That was five days continuously without any sunlight and he only had (literally) a single drop of sweat afterwards. This is low end for him, he should be capable of more.

-Striking Strength. Flash is again the weakest here, Superman comes up second capable of shaking the planet with aftershocks of his punches and even destroying them. Goku did the same against Beerus but on a universe wide scale so he tops out here. I'll scale Vegeta to Goku since they are at similar levels of power.

Speed
-Travel Speed: Flash MVP, no one is as fast as him here, speedforce OP. Superman is second he has crossed galaxy sized distances in moments. Goku and Vegeta are hypersonic at best.

-Combat Speed: Much closer but DC has the advantage, Flash and Superman can both increase their own reflexes/perceptions to attosecond speeds, that's important because then they have valuable time to think of and coordinate a plan. Goku and Vegeta should be fast enough to the point this option won't be abused.

Spoiler

[/SPOLIER]

Durability.
-Flash is the weakest, Goku and Vegeta second (wildly inconsistent, they can tank ki blasts from people capable of blowing up planets, then get hurt by bullets and lasers, or can't stay near earth's core too long). Superman has the most consistent durability feats, you really need Kryptonite or a red sun to kill the guy bar having the pure strength to do so.


-Stamina.
-Goku and Vegeta get tired, Flash and Superman do not. Ki takes a lot on the body, hence their constant need for senzu beans.

Extra's:
-DBZ are far superior Martial Artists, Superman's brawling style won't do shyt here. He will get clowned in prolonged CQC.

-Heat Vision might cancel out Ki Blasts, otherwise DBZ has the range advantage.

-DC has the superior intellect. Vegeta is a good tactician and Goku is a fighting savant but Superman and Flash are geniuses who's cognitive ability functions at far faster than light speeds. They also have experience fighting varied enemies.

-3/4 combats have true, free flight. Flash frankly can't do much from the ground. However, Sayain pride won't allow them to doubleteam Kal.


-If they fuse, Team DC is fukked.

-All this is rendered moot, if Superman decides to sacrifice Flash and blow up the planet. Sayains can't survive unprotected in space. This isn't likely though.

- This will basically be Goku and Vegeta taking turns fighting Superman. They can't touch Flash. As long as they are under a yellow sun, Clark won't get tired. They need to finish quickly, they can't win a prolonged fight. If they fuse it will be Gogeta, not Vegito who would make this a stomp.

It can go either way, but Flash is a ghost in this fight, bad partner if they keep it in the air. Green Lantern would be better.

If they act in character, DC would win. Goku and Vegeta's pride is a huge disadvantage. If they are smart and work together they will win.

: It's been ages since it has been referenced, but Superman was trained in Torquasm-Rao and Torquasm-Vo... which can be interpreted as "Hard" and "Soft" styles of Kryptonian Martial arts. Rao is more physical and offensive, Vo is more meditative, fluid, and spiritual (indeed, including a psychic or astral projection aspect which Lois used once and which Superman used to fight a psychic entity). Given how esoteric that is, however, more modern stories simply focus on his combat experience and trained acquaintances who've passed on knowledge over the years. Just the sheer amount of combat Superman sees in his adventures should render him martially competent. Technique matters, certainly, but experience is probably the fastest teacher of technique.

 

[The Plug]

Punching through that tiny planet doesn't mean shyt. Superman was destroying realities and causing planets to be destroyed by punching NEAR a planet.

And again, show some proof that Goku is faster than light. Whis and Beerus are but Goku is an ant compared to them.

Goku isn't an ant to Beerus, goku is a God like Beerus. While not as powerful, he's held his own against Beerus. Again their fight shook the universe.

To an extent, you don't have to prove that any dragon ball character is faster than the speed of light as long as you can scale the characters to each other.

Beerus can destroy a universe and goku is a God and fought him as a near equal. It should lead you to believe that goku has near that power.

Dragon ball doesn't get technical about how fast their character's move or how much strength their character's have

Y'all nikkas just don't know. Superman is fukking strong. Y'all upping planet destruction when Superman ta

Supernovas is moot for all the characters here. Beerus casually destroys stars and goku can be scaled to beerus.

Superman killed Goku twice in a screwattack battle

Goku breaks limits but Superman has no limits.

Screw attack is dumb, they're no authority to this shyt

 

[Draje]

Goku isn't an ant to Beerus, goku is a God like Beerus. While not as powerful, he's held his own against Beerus. Again their fight shook the universe.

To an extent, you don't have to prove that any dragon ball character is faster than the speed of light as long as you can scale the characters to each other.

Beerus can destroy a universe and goku is a God and fought him as a near equal. It should lead you to believe that goku has near that power.

Dragon ball doesn't get technical about how fast their character's move or how much strength their character's have


Supernovas is moot for all the characters here. Beerus casually destroys stars and goku can be scaled to beerus.



Screw attack is dumb, they're no authority to this shyt

Except no. We've already seen that Beerus wasn't really trying against Goku and could have killed him at any time. As a god of Destruction, Beerus has special powers that Goku doesn't and Beerus said he'd try to fight Goku on his level to see how far he could go.

Destruction is a special ability that Beerus and gods of Destruction have that Goku can't replicate. It's why Beerus can destroy souls and incorporeal beings so you can't scale those abilities to Goku.

We've seen Goku, even in super, struggle with people who move slower than light speed so you can't prove that Beerus was moving at light speed when he was fighting Goku. Again, he admitted that Goku still wasn't near him and that he was testing his ability.

 

[The Plug]

Except no. We've already seen that Beerus wasn't really trying against Goku and could have killed him at any time. As a god of Destruction, Beerus has special powers that Goku doesn't and Beerus said he'd try to fight Goku on his level to see how far he could go.

Destruction is a special ability that Beerus and gods of Destruction have that Goku can't replicate. It's why Beerus can destroy souls and incorporeal beings so you can't scale those abilities to Goku.

We've seen Goku, even in super, struggle with people who move slower than light speed so you can't prove that Beerus was moving at light speed when he was fighting Goku. Again, he admitted that Goku still wasn't near him and that he was testing his ability.

The destruction that beerus has could never work on goku though because goku is also a God. It only works on lesser beings. Obviously I won't scale abilities that won't kill goku, but dragon ball has a universal power system that D.C.and marvel lacks.

Toriyama already cleared this up when he said God goku was a 6 to beerus ' 10. Current Goku that is blue and has trained under Whis with vegeta is far above that and even Vegito is stated to be somewhere equal or at least close to beerus.

Who has goku struggled against that doesn't move at light speed?

 

[Draje]

The destruction that beerus has could never work on goku though because goku is also a God. It only works on lesser beings. Obviously I won't scale abilities that won't kill goku, but dragon ball has a universal power system that D.C.and marvel lacks.

Toriyama already cleared this up when he said God goku was a 6 to beerus ' 10. Current Goku that is blue and has trained under Whis with vegeta is far above that and even Vegito is stated to be somewhere equal or at least close to beerus.

Who has goku struggled against that doesn't move at light speed?

Beerus destroyed Zamasu who killed the Gods and threatened Goku with it after Goku was acting cocky for putting the universe 7 at risk. Where are you getting that from?

You have no idea how far Goku got. Again, even during the training with Whis, Beerus sneezed at Goku and Goku said that he would have been instantly killed if it hit him.



I see Chichi, Bulma, and even Yamaha able to perceive the movements in this episode. We see Goku fighting a possessed Master Roshi and Android 17 who weren't insta-blitzed at light speed either.

Fusions are MUCH MUCH MUCH stronger than their normal forms. Goten and Trumks went from weaker to Final Form Freeza apart to being able to fight SUPER BUU. That's a HUGE BOOST.

Future Trunks hasn't showed light speed movement and he was able to match Zamasu / Goku Black.

And so forth.

So like I said, we know that Whis and Beerus are FTL but they're still much much much much more powerful than Goku. Goku is still terrified of Beerus and you can't prove that Beerus was going FTL when they fought because we know he was holding back TJ see how far Goku could go. We see Hit using time skip and it shows us that they react in microseconds which makes all the difference in speed.



Superman moves and perceived in ATTOSECONDS, at best, and nanoseconds on average.

0.000000001 Seconds Is what a nanosecond is. Hit's time skip was .5 second after he powered up and that was much too fast for Goku to react until he went Kaio Ken. Ergo...slower than light speed reactions.

Anything else?

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

Goku is faster than light

Goku can punch through planets in his weaker form


Goku can also easily keep up with Beerus who should be more powerful than Supes

They know this already breh, they just don't want to accept it. They are really jumping through hoops to avoid the truth.

Cosmic level?

Yeah breh didn't you hear? Superman is the new Galactus

Why is Flash starting to get so much attention

I think they are just hyped about this new Justice league movie that must be coming out soon because these DC fans aren't playing

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

Dont read comics at all unless u include manga and even then all i read is just 2- One Piece(which is better than DB... Come at me DB stans) and Attack on titan

Im a dbz fan. But i damn sure know that Flash can do shyt that can make him damn near. Make him unbeatable if he was in DBZverse Like slow down every one around him. Time travel etc

Flash >>> goku and vegeta

And as i said i dont read or like comics. So this no bias

Flash and Supes would be a nusance at best. There were Ginyu force members who were speedsters and that could slow people down/ stop them in their tracks but the still were defeated. Saiyans are just stronger and their rejuvenation abilities after near death experiences make them even more dangerous.

 

[Jatigi]

Flash could literally go back in time and kill their grandparents before they were born. Superman could scan their dna, make exact copies of them. It really doesn't matter who superman fights if he can make as many exact copies as he wants and have them jump goku and vegeta. Superman and Flash are even more absurd than Goku and Vegeta. Those actually thinking Goku and Vegeta can fight either one of these guys alone are stans just don't know about DC at all. You guys grew up staning Goku and that's all there is it to it. Further more, it is obvious that saiyan durability does not match the attacks that they can create.

 

[CookisaCac]

Flash and Supes would be a nusance at best. There were Ginyu force members who were speedsters and that could slow people down/ stop them in their tracks but the still were defeated. Saiyans are just stronger and their rejuvenation abilities after near death experiences make them even more dangerous.

Lmao at ginyu force comparison. Said I was done here but lmao. A good comparison would be vegeta vs hit...times a million. That's flash. Imagine Hit times a million and being able to time travel and go get other versions of himself, phase through shyt etc

 

[Jatigi]

Flash and Supes would be a nusance at best. There were Ginyu force members who were speedsters and that could slow people down/ stop them in their tracks but the still were defeated. Saiyans are just stronger and their rejuvenation abilities after near death experiences make them even more dangerous.

No, no ginyu force members were speedsters and burter wasn't even faster than frieza. They gotten beaten by some guy who struggled to move in 100x gravity of Earth. If you are trying to compare anything in DBZ before Super to even weaker versions of superman, you are clowning.

Y'all are for Goku. But will with both of those clowns and them afterwards.

 

[Rhapscallion Démone]

Lmao at ginyu force comparison. Said I was done here but lmao. A good comparison would be vegeta vs hit...times a million. That's flash. Imagine Hit times a million and being able to time travel and go get other versions of himself, phase through shyt etc

No, no ginyu force members were speedsters and burter wasn't even faster than frieza. They gotten beaten by some guy who struggled to move in 100x gravity of Earth. If you are trying to compare anything in DBZ before Super to even weaker versions of superman, you are clowning.

Y'all are for Goku. But will with both of those clowns and them afterwards.

Yall can keep trying to downplay and discredit the DBZ crew all you want but it won't change the fact that Goku is a stronger and better Charcater than Supes and the majority of the DC universe. Even the folks over at DC know this and that is why they are trying to make their universe more and more like DBZ as time goes on. Remember when they tried to give Supes his own Vegeta LMAO?!

 

[Hejdå]

While Superman keeps Goku busy Flash is gonna do this Vegeta



After that it's a double team with Supes and it's a wrap