Goldman Sachs investment bankers have had it. Calling for a 80 hour cap and systemic changes.

[Macallik86]

pay and prestige are two of the main drivers for kids to enter this field, when both are diluted, you no longer attract the top prospects which also dilutes the brand of the company. it's a self-fulfilling circle. GS can say they have all these harvard, Stanford, princeton kids working there - they become sought after from clients because they supposedly have the brightest people working for them, and when these kids can say they work at the elite GS, with all the other kids from the ivy's, and that hey got one of 200 openings that year, they benefit from the prestige factor as well.

like i said, we have a different idea of what rationalizing is.
where there are options, you rationalize, where there are no options, there are logical reasons for the status of said choice.

making the choice to work in high finance has an unavoidable entry, if you dont like that entry role, you cannot stay in high finance, thus a logical reason to stay.

making the choice to have a man, even a rich man, has multiple paths - when one is unsatisfactory, you can rationalize (make up illogical) reasons to stay or you can go and still find another.

You are saying that people who want to be in IBD don't have a choice, while negating the fact they are choosing to stay in IBD. There is a choice regarding whether the toxic environment is worth the money. Apparently the analogies regarding real life situations that are obviously wrong are not connecting the dots so I will abstain from dropping another one, but the connection imo makes it clear how the context of abuse determines whether we view it as worthy of enduring or not.

No, I do not. Internships are vast and vary not only from industry but even company to company, hardly comparable to a widely known industry practice. Again, hazing is not isolated to all fraternities or greek organizations nor in the cases where it is, does it look the same - this is another apples to oranges comparison.

The analogy seems pretty on par to me... They are also situations where the people lowest on the totem pole need to prove their worth by being treated as replaceable, being underpaid (or at least feeling like the compensation still isn't worth it), and being pushed to their mental breaking point.

Psychologically, it's the same approach that the military takes towards soldiers. From there, you have putty that you can mold into whatever you want with minimal resistance.

The question is whether this is healthy, actualizes the full potential of those involved, etc. Finance arguably is known for its toxic culture, and these type of actions reinforce it. Looking at the other examples (the military, fraternities), they clearly struggle culturally as well so.... yeah.

I'm sorry but this is a weird comparison that seems more personal than anything else, maybe someone else is willing to touch this but I don't see the correlation to the topic and just see thread derailment on the horizon.

True. You got it, and I won't question your perspective moving forward.

 

[88m3]

I think they used to give the new guys Rolexes as a bonus so at least they know the time

 

[mitter]

These guys get very high compensation, and it's not like they had limited opportunities for other jobs. If someone has what it takes to get hired by Goldman Sachs, they can find all kinds of other jobs.

I do think working such hours is ridiculous, but there is a long list of people who deserve our sympathy before these guys.

 

[chineebai]

I started my career as an investment banker, I quit in a few months. Didn't feel like it was worth it. I have a few friends at GS and it's not only the highly paid IB that work long hours, but everyone that doesn't earn a lot of money like those in operations. Is it worth it? Maybe for some, but I'd say probably not. If you love finance and investing, you can make money anywhere.

 

[NZA]

Why not just hire 2x the workers, pay everyone $80K instead of $150K and have them work 50 hours a week instead of 100 hours

most people arent very logical

 

[Hood Critic]

Psychologically, it's the same approach that the military takes towards soldiers. From there, you have putty that you can mold into whatever you want with minimal resistance.

The question is whether this is healthy, actualizes the full potential of those involved, etc. Finance arguably is known for its toxic culture, and these type of actions reinforce it. Looking at the other examples (the military, fraternities), they clearly struggle culturally as well so.... yeah.

Your military analogy is a better one. Even as someone who served in the military, I'm indifferent to the plight of the recruit and that of the US military. Are there unhealthy practices and toxic situations that take place, yes there are. At the end of the day, personal risk versus reward will guide someone to whether they continue or go elsewhere. I don't see this as a moral problem or issue when someone has a choice. GS has something that these jr bankers want, wealth and status. There are no good guys or bad guys in this situation, just a limited supply and a slightly higher demand.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

You are saying that people who want to be in IBD don't have a choice, while negating the fact they are choosing to stay in IBD. There is a choice regarding whether the toxic environment is worth the money. .

no, i am saying people who want to work in high finance (generally, there's always that one exception) do not have a choice in avoiding IDB as it is the prerequisite experience for those other roles. you seem to keep wanting to skip this fact that IDB is the gateway to a certain path of careers which can't be circumvented. of course they have all the options in the world if they don't want a career in IDB, HF, PE or VC

 

[Frangala]

no, i am saying people who want to work in high finance (generally, there's always that one exception) do not have a choice in avoiding IDB as it is the prerequisite experience for those other roles. you seem to keep wanting to skip this fact that IDB is the gateway to a certain path of careers which can't be circumvented. of course they have all the options in the world if they don't want a career in IDB, HF, PE or VC

That is changing slowly where working in a VC/PE firm is a lot more accessible for junior employees instead of having investment banking as the prerequisite experience to get into VC/PE firms where now these firms (PEs and VCs) are offering internships to undergrads with the potential of them being full time hires post graduation.

You even have universities with their own student run investment fund (at least at the graduate level with perhaps limited access to undergrads but still access). Still early days in terms of IB's pull on young talent but it is slowly being reduced.

Especially with the tech-focused VCs in the West Coast, they are probably looking more to hire technical people with knowledge of the sector/industry in which their portfolio companies operate in and not necessarily finance guys. I agree that IB experience is still dominant as a gateway to PE but it is changing.

 

[NaijaProdigy Redux]

That is changing slowly where working in a VC/PE firm is a lot more accessible for junior employees instead of having investment banking as the prerequisite experience to get into VC/PE firms where now these firms (PEs and VCs) are offering internships to undergrads with the potential of them being full time hires post graduation.

You even have universities with their own student run investment fund (at least at the graduate level with perhaps limited access to undergrads but still access). Still early days in terms of IB's pull on young talent but it is slowly being reduced.

Especially with the tech-focused VCs in the West Coast, they are probably looking more to hire technical people with knowledge of the sector/industry in which their portfolio companies operate in and not necessarily finance guys. I agree that IB experience is still dominant as a gateway to PE but it is changing.

I agree that there are more analyst positions / programs on the buy-side now than when I was in school (over 10 years ago) but the majority of the junior pipeline is still being filled at the Pre-MBA associate level by analysts from banking programs.

Your chance of getting one of the analyst positions at a PE megafund or premier VC is even more slim than a banking analyst position at a bulge bracket or top boutique. There are just much fewer seats.

For VC, I agree there are certainly people with relevant industry backgrounds that populate the ranks but a substantial number of those junior positions are filled by analysts from TMT groups.

The most prominent hedge funds, with the exception of like quant or macro funds, are largely recruiting banking analysts and Pre-MBA private equity associates given the prerequisite training.

At the end of the day, while things are definitely changing SLOWLY, the investment banking program maximizes your optionality in finance. It just fukking sucks but I don't regret it.

 

[Kyle C. Barker]

Nothing will change except slides


Plz fix

Yall are cruel

 

[NatiboyB]

What are they doing working 95 hour weeks. That does seem extreme. Or is this one of those earn your stripes deals where after the first year or so you get to work a regular week?

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

What are they doing working 95 hour weeks. That does seem extreme. Or is this one of those earn your stripes deals where after the first year or so you get to work a regular week?

WLB balance improves as you move up, although it never becomes a consistent/predictable 9-5. my ex was in banking, those long hours were usually due to the speed in which deals advance and needing to get shyt to the clients in the AM to get feedback and make changes in the evening. dudes would be working regular during the day, shoot something over to an MD around 11am-1pm, won't hear from the MD or client until 5/6/7pm, and then need to make revisions or work on new models and slides from 6-12/1am in the morning so that the new material would be in the MD's inbox for review early in the morning before meeting with or sending to a client

 

[Scholar]

Pretty wild how fast that PowerPoint deck has gotten around the street. Everyone has the whole slide deck

 

[ADevilYouKhow]

Goldman CEO tells exhausted bankers he'll try to give them Saturdays off

 

[ExodusNirvana]

Nothing will change except slides


Plz fix