Hakeem Olajuwon should be in the GOAT debate...

[murksiderock]

9 first round exits

Yea Man I’m Sorry

I was just told by this board the other day that losing in Rd1 one time in your career disqualifies one guy from GOAT contention, and I've been told for years on here that it doesn't matter if your roster was sorry or things happened outside of your control like just losing to a better team...

This just another case of Coli weirdos gassing others and moving the goalposts of whats acceptable for great players, instead of holding everyone to the exact same standards. Not surprising with these nikkas on here....

Hakeem is a consensus Top 12 guy, some do have him inside the Top 10 and rarely do you hear him beyond #12. I have a more detailed opinion of him, having never seen him, that I'll get to in a minute...

 

[Marc Spector]

He was a championship level player in the 80s

If he's supposed to be in the GOAT convo, then championship level means the Rockets shouldve been close every year or hell every other year.

THem fools had like 4 consecutive first round exits

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

I've been a Suns fan most of my life.

The 2 players that struck the most

blood curdling fear in me was Michael

Jordan & Hakeem Olajuwon.EVER! He

was a fukking nightmare to root against.

Totally unstoppable.It was like the

defender wasn't even there.Only thing

to cause me that much anxiety was that

3 headed trio in San Antonio Duncan,

Ginobili, and Parker.When it comes to

individual players, MJ & Dream evoked

the most fear.The Suns would have a

Ship or two if it wasn't for Dream

 

[KingJay]

9 first round exits

Mike aint make it out the 1st round until Scottie came
Couldn't make it out the 2nd until Scotty became his Robin
Took 7 seasons to make it to his 1st Finals
Got swept by a Celtics team Hakeem took to 6 after knocking out Magic/Kareem/Worthy in 5
Lost to an Orlando team that Hakeem swept

 

[Marc Spector]

Mike aint make it out the 1st round until Scottie came
Couldn't make it out the 2nd until Scotty became his Robin
Took 7 seasons to make it to his 1st Finals
Got swept by a Celtics team Hakeem took to 6 after knocking out Magic/Kareem/Worthy in 5
Lost to an Orlando team that Hakeem swept

What are you doing?

You know damn well we dont count the years Jordan didnt win the Finals

 

[Voice of Reason]

If Lebron isn't in your top five your opinion on basketball is completely void

 

[Baka's Weird Case]

might be the best swagnificent thread ive ever seen

 

[Swagnificent]

Can't be the goat if you're not even the best player in your draft class

Hakeem cant be in the GOAT debate if he was never better than another GOAT contender and they actually played in the same era and got drafted the same year.

Can't be the GOAT when you clearly were not in the discussion for best player of your era.

I could argue Hakeem is better than Jordan. Just think of it this way, how often did Hakeem play with a player of Scottie Pippen's caliber? Only time Hakeem played with another elite player was to start his career when Ralph Sampson was healthy. And guess what he did? He made it to the Finals in 1986 as a 2nd year player defeating Magic's Lakers in the Western Conference Finals before losing to Larry Bird's Celtics.

So when Mike was getting swept out of the first round in '86, Hakeem was in the NBA Finals. Give Hakeem a player like Pippen for his entire career and he might be the one sitting in 6 rings instead of Mike.

This is why I say player's should be judged by their actual playing ability over accolades. The circumstances are rarely the same for guys like Hakeem and Jordan. Who knows how Jordan's career goes if he never got a player of Pippen's caliber by his side? He might have only won 1-2 titles in his career instead of 6.

 

[Swagnificent]

Hakeem had arguably the greatest peak of any player ever (mvp, dpoy, fmvp ) the problem is after he gets those 2 rings, he falls off a cliff just a few years later. His longevity as a championship level player wasn't as long as the other top 3-5 players.

He was a championship level player from 1986 on. He just never had the talent around him to show it. Give Hakeem a sidekick like Scottie and he's the one with 6 rings instead of Jordan.

 

[HabitualChiller]

IMO there are only 4 true contenders for the GOAT in basketball: Jordan, Kobe, Wilt, and Hakeem.

Like Kobe, for some reason Hakeem seems to get the least love of the legit GOAT contenders. Most people list him in the 9-12 range when in reality he's closer to 1-4. A by-product of people's obsession with stats and accolades rather than actual playing ability.

Based purely on the ability to play basketball rather than accolades, Hakeem is AT WORST the 4th best player in NBA history after Kobe, Jordan, and Wilt. His game was FLAWLESS. He had no weakness or holes to speak of. He possesed both elite athletism as well as sublime skill. He was not only the best defensive player of all-time but also the most skilled offensive big man in history. His offensive skill set was so amazing that even guards stood to learn from him.

People need to give this man his respect and put him in his rightful place on the Mt. Rushmore of basketball. Hakeem Olajuwon is arguably the greatest basketball player of all-time.

I'm confused as to how you have Wilt's name in there when an actual GOAT candidate (KAJ) made a valid case for why he's overrated.

 

[Swagnificent]

Pure skills, he's GOAT level. Not sure the resume is good enough for top-5 though.

So what's the problem with rating him based on skills instead of stuff he couldn't control like who his teammates were?

Only reason Hakeem's resume ain't better is because he spent nearly his entire career surrounded by bums. Only time he had another star caliber player was in '86 and he made it to the Finals as a 23 year old. Then in '94 and '95 he got some decent role players and with Jordan out of the picture he wins back to back rings.

Give Hakeem a sidekick like Pippen for most of his career and watch how much that resume changes. He might be the one sitting on 5 MVPs and 6 titles instead of MJ.

 

[Swagnificent]

An example of how important the teammate and GM aspect is tied to individual player all-time rankings. Talent and Production he’s as good as anybody., but he never played with a lot of talent for a consistent part of his career, and when he did he got them to the Finals.

He won a title with no-all star on his team and a declining Clyde Drexler, Imagine if he played with a young Penny Hardaway. Young Kobe, Young Dwyane Wade, Steve Nash, and LeBron like Shaq?

Exactly right.

This is why I rank players by their actual ability to play the game rather than the list of accolades they were able to accumulate due to divergent factors.

Its why I will never rate a player like Tim Duncan over a Hakeem Olajuwon simply because Duncan was more fortunate based on who he was able to play with.

 

[Swagnificent]

Nothing is more annoying than hearing people say Duncan PLAYED BASKETBALL BETTER than Hakeem

It’s hilarious watching the reactions of dudes who played against/with both

they seem so offended and disrespected

Hakeem definitely super underrated

Cosign.

It is straight disrespectful to even put them in the same breathe. Hakeem Olajuwon was better than Tim Duncan at every facet of the game. There's literally nothing Duncan did better or even close to the same level as Dream. Only idiots who look at a resume would even try to argue otherwise. As you said, all the players react in an offended manner cause they actually saw both guys play and no there is no comparison. Hakeem Olajuwon was simply on another level.

 

[Swagnificent]

If Lebron isn't in your top five your opinion on basketball is completely void

He's #6 on my all-time list. Kobe, Jordan, Wilt, Hakeem, and Shaq are all CLEARLY better. At best he might have an argument against Shaq for the 5th spot. But I would personally take peak Shaq over peak LeBron in a heartbeat. And when I rate players its at their peak level of play rather than their overall career level of play.

Bron's superior work ethic allowed him to stay at his peak longer than Shaq so if I was starting a team and taking work ethic over a career into account I would put LeBron ahead of Shaq. But if we're talking one game, one series, one season with everything on the line then Bron has no argument for being in the Top 5 All-Time ahead of Kobe, Jordan, Wilt, Hakeem, and Shaq.

 

[murksiderock]

Your accomplishments are a result of your ability to play the game at the highest level, you can try to separate the two but the margins are thin. There is no such player on the All-Time boards who couldn't play basketball at a high level, and not a one of them is "unskilled"....

There also has never existed a flawless basketball player....

The problem with giving Hakeem this high of praise, "arguably the greatest player of all time", is that at his best he wasn't seen as a 1:1 peer to two guys: Magic and Mike. So by default, the highest you could have him is #3, his prime and peak overlapped with these guys and everybody thought those guys were greater players...

He could be a dominant player in the postseason, but two things work against his favor: a)he isnt the only dominant playoff GOAT, and b)there are degrees of dominance and he wasn’t the most dominant. Some people say losing multiple times in The Finals means you aren't dominant in that round. I'm not one of those people but if I was, what does it say about someone who lost 9x in Rd1?

Ultimately, when you account for the consistent playoff legends of LeBron, Kareem, Bird, and Russell, the highest you could rank him is #8...

His prime and his peak is less impactful than Wilt and Kobe, so the highest you could have him is #10. All in all he's rated properly, a borderline Top 10 guy with no real case for Top 5 and certainly not for greatest player ever...