A bear is one thing but Gorilla, knowing the connotation, is fukked up. Combine that with callin that man an uncle Tom when YOU were the one who acted more like one is foul. And not just any man but the man who helped you out at your lowest but you turn around and kee kee it up all around cacs and shyt callin Frazier a big dumb uncle Tom black gorilla. Ali was 100% foul for what he did.
Dont blame Joe at all for not forgiving him.
I heard Frazier say that although he heard Ali say he was wrong, he never did say he was sorry. Btw, in post #32, I stand corrected when I said people very close to me accused me 10 or 15 years after the first fight of being brainwashed, when I told them one night that I felt Ali was wrong for calling Joe a gorilla. Come to think of it, although it was wrong, that was more acceptable during the 70's...just watch how many times Fred called Aunt Esther a gorilla.
Anyway, as I was saying, I wasn't really accused of being brainwashed that night for criticizing what Ali said, although I did mention what he said. I was really attacked for saying I went for Frazier in their first fight. Like I said earlier, Frazier was the first champion I vividly remember, and it was a time Ali was just being let back into boxing. I didn't remember or know about the Ali-Liston fights, and what Ali sacrificed. Coming from the eyes of a child, all I saw was a man with a big mouth talking over the quieter champion, who again was my first boxing hero Joe Frazier, who was no where near an uncle tom...believe me when I say this. More White people voting for Frazier over Ali does in no way make Frazier an uncle tom. You'd have to have issues to even think like that. Although I was the one who was practically called a tom that night for saying I went for Frazier, which was a total shock because we were all in the same age group, I could always tell by this first fight who was really fake or brainwashed, based on how they respond to me when I say I went for Frazier. I know I was only in elementary school and all when they first fought, but I clearly remember nobody was being called a tom for going for Frazier. Like I said, he was far from that. All you have to do is read how he grew up, something I did back when he was champion. Plus you could tell he was no tom just by watching him. He never changed til the day he died.
What happened was, Frazier was upset by Foreman two years after he beat Ali in that first fight, and he lost his glory, especially when he was knocked down six times in that fight, and stopped...which turned into a joke over the years. Then there was Ali-Frazier II, where Ali got the decision, but that wasn't a championship fight. Foreman was the champion because he beat Frazier. Many people til this day, still think Ali-Frazier II came before Frazier's blow-out lost to Foreman, but it came after. So by the time Ali-Frazier III came around, Frazier was pretty much washed up. Plus this fight came after Ali beat Foreman and became the heavyweight champion again (The Rumble in the Jungle). So by now, Ali was the heavyweight champion, and he could pretty much say what he wanted to about the twice beaten Frazier, and many people went along with it. And this fight was deemed "The Thriller in Manila with the Gorilla", not "The Thriller in Manila", lets call it for what it really was. But how Frazier later became the White mans champion by people in my age group who should have known better, was pretty disturbing. And for me to point all this out, never losing respect for Smokin Joe, then getting accused of being brainwashed into going for Joe in that first fight because I went to a mostly White school back then, even though I still lived in the hood, I found even more disturbing. Tbh, I went for Joe in the second fight two. By the time the third fight came around, I really didn't want to see them fight. Sometimes, I think I was the only one on the planet that didn't really want to see a third fight. As far as I was concerned, two of my favorite champions broke even...leave it at that.
PS. Later on when I finally got some of these brothers to remember Frazier had already lost badly to Foreman before Ali-Frazier II, and III, it made them have a seat, and think they actually may have been the ones brainwashed, and jumped on the bandwagon with everybody else, as far as Frazier being the White mans' champion. In fact some of them got offended. Personally, I use to get turned off when brothers would act like Frazier's defeat to Ali in "The Thrilla in Manila" was some kind of blow to White supremacy
. And til this day, a lot of our people still tend to be lost...smh.
@ logistics
