He's not perfect, but where does Tariq Nasheed stand with you as a black voice in the media?

[Poitier]

When you take that in collection with his background and what he currently writes on his social media, blogs, etc. (doesn't he own a website aimed at teaching Black men how to objectify women?) you can clearly see he's a misogynist.

Women or prostitutes? Women or sex positive women? He is very specific when he discusses types of women.

Also you are African not Black American so what is your stake in our identity crisis?

 

[PartyHeart]

He clearly says Black man and Women "don't know who they are" and that effects self-perception. Black men may classify as Christian but Black Women fill the churches.




Ok fair



This isn't true. Certain tribes did and others didn't.




An argument can be made that welfare is an attack on the Black nuclear family by filling many of the male's role




Really? I thought he was saying that Black people don't learn like Whites and male/female don't learn the same either thus the success of gender based schools



Fair enough but Nzinga, Hatshephut, etc all got props but yes more Black Women should be involved

True about Black women attending church more (although I think the numbers are overstated) but Black men still identify as Christian. Even though they may not behave as such, they still identify. Much like Black women may attend church more but have behaviors that do not align with Christianity. And I will concede that they did mention or at least show some powerful Black women in history. At the end of the day, I guess it could be said that if Black women wanted to see more of where we came from, we'd have to make our own documentary. But then, I just think how Black feminism is demonized because we used it to address Black female specific issues that weren't being addressed in the broader civil rights movements, and I doubt the response would be any different if we separately told our history either. Not that I'd care who'd have a problem with it, but just saying its really a no win for us in some people's eyes.

I've heard the argument for the welfare thing, and I tend to believe its not true. Yes obviously by replacing income you can make it easier for Black women to maintain households on their own. However that does not even come up until Black women are left with children first. The idea that Black women are purposefully pushing willing men out of their homes for a check is preposterous, Reagan era welfare queen racism. Finally about Black children, I'd like to see studies on us learning differently. Not that I don't believe it but I want to do my own research. Also as far as I know, the way children are taught has not changed much. What has changed is the quality of the education and of course more girls in the classroom. So I hesitate to blame some "feminized teaching" as to why boys are achieving less in academics, because they were achieving more previously under the same system.

 

[TRY GOD]

 

[PartyHeart]

Women or prostitutes? Women or sex positive women? He is very specific when he discusses types of women.

Also you are African not Black American so what is your stake in our identity crisis?

lol That's just it. Who is he to classify women in that way? Especially when he'd never do the same to men, unless to insult the men who don't view women as objects like he does as "simps".

I don't think the identity crisis is exclusive to Black Americans. It could be argued that its worse, but Black Americans are definitely not the only Africans in the diaspora suffering from these issues. I think we as a whole can only benefit from viewing ourselves as an entire body with different cultures/beliefs but intrinsically needing the same self determination to get us out of this rut.

Also, I live in America and I honestly don't view myself as separate. Many will disagree I'm aware, but

 

[Poitier]

At the end of the day, I guess it could be said that if Black women wanted to see more of where we came from, we'd have to make our own documentary.

Or maybe if Black Feminist came at Tariq as sisters and said they would like to be involved to tell their views on White supremacy and Black Female history something could have been worked out. A person like Feminista Jones has a huge following so why would Tariq not take advantage?

The idea that Black women are purposefully pushing willing men out of their homes for a check is preposterous

Not pushing out but it gives a cushion and dehumanizes the man. I think the alternatives and punishments for breaking up families and divorcing are not costly enough, either.

Finally about Black children, I'd like to see studies on us learning differently. Not that I don't believe it but I want to do my own research. Also as far as I know, the way children are taught has not changed much. What has changed is the quality of the education and of course more girls in the classroom. So I hesitate to blame some "feminized teaching" as to why boys are achieving less in academics, because they were achieving more previously under the same system.

Well for starters, being taught by people who look like you has shown to be a positive, also learning about people who look like you. It gives you a nuanced "schema" of Blackness which most Blacks don't have

And gender-based school also seem to work.

The outcome-based, special ed teaching has been around so when were Black boys achieving?

lol That's just it. Who is he to classify women in that way? Especially when he'd never do the same to men, unless to insult the men who don't view women as objects like he does as "simps".

I don't think the identity crisis is exclusive to Black Americans. It could be argued that its worse, but Black Americans are definitely not the only Africans in the diaspora suffering from these issues. I think we as a whole can only benefit from viewing ourselves as an entire body with different cultures/beliefs but intrinsically needing the same self determination to get us out of this rut.

Also, I live in America and I honestly don't view myself as separate. Many will disagree I'm aware, but

Tariq calls out male c00ns and agents...simps are men who don't have respect for themselves and get abused by a certain kind of female

I agree with the Pan-Africanism and I was just in another thread saying Black immigrants should view themselves as Black Americans so cool

 

[PartyHeart]

Or maybe if Black Feminist came at Tariq as sisters and said they would like to be involved to tell their views on White supremacy and Black Female history something could have been worked out. A person like Feminista Jones has a huge following so why would Tariq not take advantage?

Tariq would have to change A LOT about his view of women, Black women in particular, to ever have Black feminists approach him about anything productive at this point. I have seen screen shots of the beef from both sides. It is a full blown mess.

Not pushing out but it gives a cushion and dehumanizes the man. I think the alternatives and punishments for breaking up families and divorcing are not costly enough, either.

Got you. I think its interesting that you use the term dehumanize. To me it shows that potentially at this root of this all is a negative affect on the mentality/spirit of Black men. For a lack of better words, they are being made to feel useless and this could be driving their actions towards abandonment. Which if true absolutely needs to change. However, whenever single motherhood and fatherlessness is talked about, instead of saying this you have a bunch of men saying "bytch should have chose better" and "she just wanted to get a check". Categorically different arguments, and the latter is very harmful to any positive changes ever being made.

Well for starters, being taught by people who look like you has shown to be a positive, also learning about people who look like you. It gives you a nuanced "schema" of Blackness which most Blacks don't have

And gender-based school also seem to work.

The outcome-based, special ed teaching has been around so when were Black boys achieving?

I was more speaking about the way in which kids were being taught, not who is doing the teaching. Also, when I spoke about boys achieving I meant boys in general, just to address the argument of education being feminized (unless you want to argue that black feminized and white feminized are different). I do acknowledge that Black teachers should be teaching Black children ideally. Especially in formative years IMO.

Tariq calls out male c00ns and agents...simps are men who don't have respect for themselves and get abused by a certain kind of female

I agree with the Pan-Africanism and I was just in another thread saying Black immigrants should view themselves as Black Americans so cool

Agreed. Pan Africanism is even more important and potentially viable with the emergence of some African economies.

Going to sleep now, I'll address any other points tomorrow.

 

[Ronnie Lott]

Tariq would have to change A LOT about his view of women, Black women in particular, to ever have Black feminists approach him about anything productive at this point. I have seen screen shots of the beef from both sides. It is a full blown mess.



Got you. I think its interesting that you use the term dehumanize. To me it shows that potentially at this root of this all is a negative affect on the mentality/spirit of Black men. For a lack of better words, they are being made to feel useless and this could be driving their actions towards abandonment. Which if true absolutely needs to change. However, whenever single motherhood and fatherlessness is talked about, instead of saying this you have a bunch of men saying "bytch should have chose better" and "she just wanted to get a check". Categorically different arguments, and the latter is very harmful to any changes ever being made.



I was more speaking about the way in which kids were being taught, not who is doing the teaching. Also, when I spoke about boys achieving I meant boys in general, just to address the argument of education being feminized (unless you want to argue that black feminized and white feminized are different). I do acknowledge that Black teachers should be teaching Black children ideally. Especially in formative years IMO.



Agreed. Pan Africanism is even more important and potential viable with the emergence of some African economies.

Going to sleep now, I'll address any other points tomorrow.

You are still duckin the numerous requests from several different posters that have requested that you provide exams of Tariq saying or being mysoginist in any of the hidden colors films as you have accused him of doing.

How much longer are you going to deflect, give ambiguous responses and straw man arguments and continue to lean on baseless claims?

 

[klutch2381]

@Napoleon is such a clown.

You don't bother me for the most part. I understand you're a highly self-interested person and a megalomaniac to boot; so, that leaves you in the unenviable position of constantly switching positions, philosophies and allegiances when your self-interests are piqued (for full disclosure, this isn't uncommon). Yet, what is wholly disconcerting about you is that as a byproduct of your megalomania you think all of your beliefs and sentiments are somehow indubitable. It also has imbued you with this belief that you and you alone have somehow surpassed all of humanity in intellect as this supreme erudite. You're the type of person that "pretends" to know everything. I saw you in the World Cup thread masquerading like you follow soccer regularly (). When we both know you have a greater vested interest in who Chris Brown is diddling, or what's going to happen on the next episode of Real Housewives of Atlanta. Moreover, this quality coupled with your wanton nature regarding self-interest has disastrous effects. It isn't enough for you to say, "I like Drake. He's cool," or, "I like Tariq. He's entertaining." You have to go a step further and make ridiculous and seemingly homoerotic comments about Drake, or stan Tariq like the fate of civilization is dependent upon it, because whatever you say = incontestable. But, I don't even deem you a clown for this. You're just a misguided kid with limited life experience(s) outside of college.

You've spent the majority of your adult life in institutions of higher learning, and are one of those proponents for STEM over everything. I know you place little gravitas on social sciences and the like. Hell, I even remember you pooh-poohing @kp404 in a thread when he told you what he was doing in terms of sociology. However, you vigorously fellate someone like Tariq who essentially disseminates sociological and historical barbershop canards to the masses, whilst you simultaneously shyt on the same institutions and their peer-reviewed, established, qualitative and quantitative iterations. This is what makes you a fukking clown. You're a budding scientist, and you're eating heartily of this intellectual fast food. For many, this intellectual fast food is as far is they are going to get, and it's all they want. That's fine. I don't hate Tariq. I realize he serves a certain purpose and so do others of his ilk. But, you, you should fukking know better. You as an empiricist understand inferential statistics, data sets, longitudinal studies, models, hypotheses, qualitative and quantitative research, etc. At least, I hope you do. How do you of all people champion someone that espouses melanin has superpowers? Isn't your favorite thing to say from the little bit of philosophy you know, "prove it," or "The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim,"?

Even if we take something more tangible like white supremacy, what empirical data could Tariq present vis-a-vis black people's sentiments regarding white supremacy, their actual experiences with it, and so forth? What peer-reviewed studies could he reference or cite? He isn't a sociologist. Truly, that isn't lost on me. What is lost on me is how you, a dogmatic empiricist in every other walk of life, can so greedily devour what you know to be a bunch of hypotheses with no apprehension, and do so as you oppose legitimate academic institutions. How the fukk do you stan a pseudo-sociologist, but deride actual sociology and the other social sciences when you're an empiricist?


In earnest, you should think about sending that degree back to Emory. All this time and you haven't learned shyt.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

@Napoleon is such a clown.

You don't bother me for the most part. I understand you're a highly self-interested person and a megalomaniac to boot; so, that leaves you in the unenviable position of constantly switching positions, philosophies and allegiances when your self-interests are piqued (for full disclosure, this isn't uncommon). Yet, what is wholly disconcerting about you is that as a byproduct of your megalomania you think all of your beliefs and sentiments are somehow indubitable. It also has imbued you with this belief that you and you alone have somehow surpassed all of humanity in intellect as this supreme erudite. You're the type of person that "pretends" to know everything.

Stop.

I speak on what I know. Period. So if we're talking about something I know...I'll speak on it.

I saw you in the World Cup thread masquerading like you follow soccer regularly ().

You know which sports I follow in my personal life?

When we both know you have a greater vested interest in who Chris Brown is diddling, or what's going to happen on the next episode of Real Housewives of Atlanta. Moreover, this quality coupled with your wanton nature regarding self-interest has disastrous effects. It isn't enough for you to say, "I like Drake. He's cool," or, "I like Tariq. He's entertaining." You have to go a step further and make ridiculous and seemingly homoerotic comments about Drake, or stan Tariq like the fate of civilization is dependent upon it, because whatever you say = incontestable. But, I don't even deem you a clown for this. You're just a misguided kid with limited life experience(s) outside of college.

Except these are bullshyt opinions I toss around for the sake of enjoying a message board and you seem to take more stock in that I do.

You've spent the majority of your adult life in institutions of higher learning, and are one of those proponents for STEM over everything. I know you place little gravitas on social sciences and the like. Hell, I even remember you pooh-poohing @kp404 in a thread when he told you what he was doing in terms of sociology.

I don't deep-six the social sciences...I just ask that they not step over the line when we engage certain topics.

However, you vigorously fellate someone like Tariq who essentially disseminates sociological and historical barbershop canards to the masses, whilst you simultaneously shyt on the same institutions and their peer-reviewed, established, qualitative and quantitative iterations. This is what makes you a fukking clown. You're a budding scientist, and you're eating heartily of this intellectual fast food. For many, this intellectual fast food is as far is they are going to get, and it's all they want. That's fine. I don't hate Tariq. I realize he serves a certain purpose and so do others of his ilk. But, you, you should fukking know better.

Why are these same academics taking more steps to get out in front of Tariq then?

If we're talking about mass consumption of content aimed towards black society, then I don't see anything remotely close to what Skip Gates did for "black in latin america" in years.

You as an empiricist understand inferential statistics, data sets, longitudinal studies, models, hypotheses, qualitative and quantitative research, etc. At least, I hope you do. How do you of all people champion someone that espouses melanin has superpowers? Isn't your favorite thing to say from the little bit of philosophy you know, "prove it," or "The burden of proof lies with the person making the claim,"?

I STARTED the thread critiquing the first two HC films. What are you talking about.

Even if we take something more tangible like white supremacy, what empirical data could Tariq present vis-a-vis black people's sentiments regarding white supremacy, their actual experiences with it, and so forth?

Did you see any of the HC movies?

What peer-reviewed studies could he reference or cite? He isn't a sociologist. Truly, that isn't lost on me. What is lost on me is how you, a dogmatic empiricist in every other walk of life, can so greedily devour what you know to be a bunch of hypotheses with no apprehension, and do so as you oppose legitimate academic institutions. How the fukk do you stan a pseudo-sociologist, but deride actual sociology and the other social sciences when you're an empiricist?

This lack of a degree seems to bother you....yet you're one of the types to come in here and claim tariq is doing nothing new.

HC 3 had the same academics you claim Tariq is unqualified to even speak on or for.

Again, the movies have some flaws, as they are self-produced documentaries, but this does not deride the underlying message throughout.

 

[emoney]

I'll will never be tired of being a self-sufficient person (that is a characteristic that should define all human beings). Also, I never want to be a weak person (not sorry).

Putting myself last (ONLY BECAUSE I WAS BORN WITH A VAGINA) will not create the utopian, communal society that you described above nor will it guarantee that any of the men you described will reach back to pull me up (especially given my experiences with "successful" black men and women in general). We all know that if black women are ignored while black men are the only ones helped and uplifted, we'll just end up with a bunch of men regurgitating the conservative rhetoric of "I did it, why can't they." We will end up with a bunch of men who want absolutely nothing to do with the women of their race.

I will not be a third, hell fourth, class citizen (even if you and others like you believe that I am one). I will NEVER allow myself to believe that I and my personal issues don't matter. I will NEVER believe that improving the lives of black girls and women can only happen AFTER everyone else is way better off. I will NEVER ignore my issues simply because I have a vagina.

You are welcome to work toward the society that you want to live in (where some people don't matter as much as others), and I will continue to work toward the society that I want to live in (where I help black woman and men).

I appreciate these discussions because it only makes me realize that I have a huge task at hand in regard to continuing to help ALL those in need. I never considered it my fight, but from this moment forward, I will work to ensure that other races and even my own (sadly) see the humanity in black women.

*Thinks to self* Ain't I a person

Self-sufficiency is an illusion. None of us are really self-sufficient. How are you a self-sufficient? food, shelter and clothing....Do you kill or grow your own food?
Did you build your own home or apartment? Do you sew your own clothes? We all know the answers to these questions. Your a city girl with a desk job. The luxuries you have...someone allowed you to have. If self-sufficiency was a characteristic that defined us all this society would collapse. We live in a capitalistic
society that thrives on inequality to make the exchange of goods, services and knowledge possible. What I described was not utopian...it's the way other races are structured which is why they don't have similar problems to Black people in America. Your against patriarchy because you haven't seen it in play on a large scale in a while. As I said, your fear (which is understandable) is the reason your oppossed to black men being the priority and getting in positions of power. But understand this, women never have and never will build, maintain or run any community. As you get up there in age, you will stop this strong and independent rhetoric you spewing on here...I guarantee it.

 

[emoney]

black women are frightened by the idea of black male leadership. instead of believing the resources and wealth would be used to shield, protect and promote black women. they think an empowered black man would basically skip off into the sunset with a white woman -- part of the reason they desire dudes they can easily control with finances.

let them have their imaginary dikks, they'll still bytch and whine about how all the other races of women are treated in comparison to these wannabe men.

c/s

It really comes down to black women being fearful that we will leave them behind...once we get positioned. This is why we must assure them we will take them along...but they have to be cooperative and conducive to what we are trying to build (a community)

 

[mcdivit85]

He gives Black academics a platform and sparks dialogue but we need better leaders than him, Umar Johnson, Feminista Jones, Dream Hampton, etc....

Feminista Jones?

 

[emoney]

I didn't. I answered him completely. He "cares" but at the end of the day, I don't matter just yet because I have a vagina. Heck, I may never matter in my lifetime. Maybe my granddaughters will matter after his utopian society is built and all of these successful black men give them a helping hand.

I never said you don't matter. I just explained to you the position Black boys/Black men play in the community. We are the vanguard, we are the first line, we are the front line.

Listen, Black men and Black women get attacked in different ways by the dominant power structure. With us, it's more physical (police brutality, imprisonment, finances). With you, it's more psychological (self esteem, beauty, self image).

If/When Black men get into position we could mitigate a lot of the problems that plague our women. A lot of the things Black women complain about such as beauty, desirability, colorism could be eliminated with Black men being in positions of power.

 

[Poitier]

It really comes down to black women being fearful that we will leave them behind

This doesn't even make sense. If either side leaves the other its means extinction.

With us, it's more physical (police brutality, imprisonment, finances).

Breh, Black Women are definitely more likely to be victims of violence.

 

[emoney]

This doesn't even make sense. If either side leaves the other its means extinction.

Of course I don't mean everyone..but a significant %

Breh, Black Women are definitely more likely to be victims of violence.

how so?