How did Kendrick Lamar become considered 'lyrical'?

[PhonZhi]

You have to really Understand rhyming with Kendrick. He is very lyrical. It's just not I. The simple form of most rappers.

It's easy to understand a rhyme scheme when it's simple yet lyrical.

Example

I got a dope rhyme scheme
Nothing but killers on my team

It's very easy to hear the two words that rhyme.

Kendrick tucks in so many little rhymes in between his verses it can be hard to catch because it's so fast, and usually he's trying to give a message so your trying to hear what he's saying

He also is one of the best at using Alliteration without it sounding corny

Most of the coli has admitted that they dont give a damn about the "technical" aspect of rhyming, so you're speaking to mostly deaf ears

 

[PhonZhi]

Because look at his competition.

Abba da dabba da babba da foreign (skrrrt)

Lowkey, this may be the best and the most factual post in this thread

 

[AyBrehHam Linkin]

there are different types of lyrical

 

[NoChillJones]

its cause rap fans thing jazzy productions, vaguely progressive lyrics about capitalism and being against the government means you're "educated"...he's wrapping generic smart-nikka lines up in a package that people who want to appear educate cling to.

Some of my most successful and educated friends listen to some of the most vapid bullshyt...not because they're stupid...but because they know its entertainment. This untitled EP Kendrick dropped was nice...but he doesn't impress people who are hard to impress because they see through it.

Its the same way J Cole gets a pass for some how being "conscious"...shyts mind-blowing ...i'd say Jay Z and Gucci are more "conscious" than either of those two will ever be...but hey, if you rap about "hey young girl, respect your self...and the government put drugs in the hood" then you're all good with all that low effort.

Gucci...Gucci who?

 

[Versa]

Not a top tier lyricist as far as some "rappity rap" shyt. If you put Kendrick in a cypher with nikkas like Black Thought or King Los they'd eat his food.

But he's a top tier songwriter with the most well crafted verses and concepts among his peers. Vivid storyteller and is diverse in the flow category. Very few rappers are making quality albums on par with him, plus he's consistent.

He just lacks a solid amount of "quotable" bars and is generally weak in features.

This post 100%

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

Kendrick's never been a lyricist's lyricist, what he's good at doing though is bottling the feeling of the specific situations he speaks on and making them accessible to people who don't share his own experiences. A number of street rappers have touched on the exact insights that Kendrick offers but in a far less accessible way to people who don't already feel where they're coming from. Kendrick's verse construction reminds me of The Jacka... The Jacka subtly subverted a lot of the gangsta rap cliches that were being pounded into the ground in the late 90s/early 2000s but in ways that only fans of the gangsta rap subgenre appreciated for the most part.



"They call me,
The J-A-C-K-A,
Most money most hoes why I live that way,
I know its drama on the streets but I still stay,
We seen a little light but our skies still grey
Hustling in the rain feeling pain like a migraine,
headache, bit by a two-head snake, with a corrupt jaw
My boy got washed on his first case, hate to see the look
On his mother's face, no time to waste, hit the block with the 9 on waist
Only the real will make the 9 erase,
life will put your nose to the plate and make a white line erase
Mind over matter and you can even live through a massacre
Slavery or torture, we brought the straps to the club
and made them nikkas feel moisture, red shyt dripped
all down his waist, the perpetual, and all I heard was...
Phony nikkas strapped to shoot,
and If you don't blast first then we all die too"

He's using the exact same writing style that Kendrick's popularized of offering the distant observer (i.e. you, the listener) a window into his life, including the thoughts that are going on in his head. If you really hear what he's saying in the verse it's a condemnation of the insanity of the lifestyle.

 

[Jack Don the G]

@Jack Don the G

Of course boring is a personal preference. Who said it wasnt? And it absolutely matters how often a topic has been brought up because certain topics are stale. Don't play dumb. You and other Duckworths will use this exact argument to clown gangsta rap yet dodge when it applies to duckie. Stale writing is not good writing anywhere.

lmao at how quickly you jumped to "so we agree there's nothing trash about the lines".

As for poetry vs literal, don't be stupid. I understand poetry way deeper than you. Anyone reading can see this. Poetry (at least the great stuff) functions on aspects of the literal. Poetry is picture in words. So if something literally never happens in real life and you can't picture it, it wont have poetic meaning. You seem to have missed that essential point.

And your cute mental gymnastics (which you should post on rapgenius) are ultimately shallow and don't lead to a clear purpose. I'll pick out the one that had me

She will be in the demin (surface/shell of the jeans) of the family gene (tree/dna). (the out side of society)

Surface? Shell of? Do you even know what denim means? Denim is fabric. There is NOTHING in the word denim that implies position (surface vs interior) and it simply isn't relevant. Jeans are made of denim the whole way through. Interior, exterior, wherever.

and then you used that shytty convenient gymnastics to leap further into "the out side of society"

You know what... I'm just gonna stop here. Can't waste my time debating idiots enamored with cliche music. I've said this before but Kendrick stans are some of the dumbest fans in modern hip hop. You're easily impressed by weak shyt but we're not. Don't get mad when we state our opinions and you feel the need to 'remind' us we trolling though you're desperate to know our opinion

Ow, you are deflecting again I see.

I didnt ask you about your personal preferences and on why you think Kendrick is boring. I asked you what made it low level middle school poetry.

You couldnt show it so you change the discussion topic trying to prove that hes boring and cliche instead. Which you also failed to show.

"Poetry is picture in words. So if something literally never happens in real life and you can't picture it, it wont have poetic meaning. You seem to have missed that essential point."

Here you make the false point again that if it dont happens in real life you can't picture it. Man you must have a boring imagination. Probably why you have a hard time understanding poetry.

You literally think a heart is broken when some one says it? I know you dont, but you just said that it it never happens in real life you cant picture it.

Just because its a common metaphor and "hormones running away" isn't, doesn't make it less imaginable.

You call Kendrick cliche using common metaphors but if he comes up with his own metaphors you cant picture it and say its lack poetic meaning.

So what is it?

You dont even leave Kendrick with any options.


See, my hormones just run away and if I can get 'em back
To where they used to be then I'll probably be in the denim
Of a family gene that show women how to be women
Or better yet, a leader,

So you actually think Kendrick just said (using your deconstruction):

If I cant get back to being normal I will be in the pants of a family gene,
that show women to be themself or better then that, a leader

Or do you think my explanation of it fits better, saying that:

If she cant get back to her normal/sane self then she will forever be stuck in the gettho?

I dont care if you call it "mental gymnastics".

Its "mental gymnastics" to understand that when someone says he/she got a broken heart he/she is feeling sad over a love lost.

If you ever read deeper or more complex poetry you would be more used to it.

You think Lupe fiasco s hook on Blur my hands is stupid to right?

From the floating death, to the fire of death
To a flower outside my grave
An old man
Were you just being polite with your hands?

You would go, **but its impossible to go from a floating death to the fire of death **

Missing what hes trying to convey. Getting stuck in how he worded it or if its contradict reality.

But yeah, get hooked up on how i worded my break down instead of the break down it self. Like you said: "You seem to have missed that essential point."


Im not mad, Im having a conversation on the level of Kendricks lyrics. You are the one that keep deflecting, bringing up new reasons why Kendrick suck and your view on Kendrick fans.

Even when I challenge you on the topic on why he is cliche you dodge it with:

"You know what... I'm just gonna stop here. Can't waste my time debating idiots enamored with cliche music. I've said this before but Kendrick stans are some of the dumbest fans in modern hip hop. You're easily impressed by weak shyt but we're not. Don't get mad when we state our opinions and you feel the need to 'remind' us we trolling though you're desperate to know our opinion".

You cant waist your time since you painted your self into a corner. You keep contradicting yourself so you throw out new outlandish statements to get your self out of it.



This discussion started cus you didnt back up your statement on why Kendricks lyrics is trash.

I call you out on it. You didnt come with your own points or examples so instead you deflected and told me to do the work for you and come up with lines that you could dismiss.

I told you why singling out lines is a shallow way to determined a rappers lyrical level but I entertained you anyway since I knew you would do the same thing you are doing now. Take the easy way out saying its my fault that you cant prove your point.

Then you clown and make strawman arguments about why the lines are bad. You says it lack depth just proving me right in how shallow it is to judge his skill level from a few bars. Instead you start call it cliche and boring.

I go on to call you out on the cliche part since boring is a personal preference and has nothing to do with his skill level.

You go on to show how clearly biased you are calling Kendrick cliche when using common metaphors, but if he comes up with his own metaphors you cant picture it and say its lack poetic meaning. Since you couldnt show us that Kendricks lyrics is trash (even on you own terms ) you are trying to sneak out the conversation by calling every Kendrick fan dumb.

I have done what ever you asked of me and I have sticked to the topic.

Now its your turn to do the same and show me the reason on why you think Sing about me is Cliche.

But since you hate to write your own arguments on a topic I make it easy for you. You dont have to say WHY Sing about me is Cliche. Just show me two other rap songs that handle similar themes in a similar way but is not cliche.

Hopefully you could also give me some examples/reasons on why that is. But that is hoping for to much I guess.




And don't try to dodge it by saying the nature of Sing about me is so cliche that its impossible to make a song not cliche on the subject.

Because if thats the case. Then all you have to do is post ONE song that have similar themes done in a similar way. Since its cliche there must be thousands of songs out there similar to sing about me,

so this is easy for you dude.

 

[SirBiatch]

Ow, you are deflecting again I see.

I didnt ask you about your personal preferences and on why you think Kendrick is boring. I asked you what made it low level middle school poetry.

You couldnt show it so you change the discussion topic trying to prove that hes boring and cliche instead. Which you also failed to show.

"Poetry is picture in words. So if something literally never happens in real life and you can't picture it, it wont have poetic meaning. You seem to have missed that essential point."

Here you make the false point again that if it dont happens in real life you can't picture it. Man you must have a boring imagination. Probably why you have a hard time understanding poetry.

You literally think a heart is broken when some one says it? I know you dont, but you just said that it it never happens in real life you cant picture it.

Just because its a common metaphor and "hormones running away" isn't, doesn't make it less imaginable.

You call Kendrick cliche using common metaphors but if he comes up with his own metaphors you cant picture it and say its lack poetic meaning.

So what is it?

You dont even leave Kendrick with any options.


See, my hormones just run away and if I can get 'em back
To where they used to be then I'll probably be in the denim
Of a family gene that show women how to be women
Or better yet, a leader,

So you actually think Kendrick just said (using your deconstruction):

If I cant get back to being normal I will be in the pants of a family gene,
that show women to be themself or better then that, a leader

Or do you think my explanation of it fits better, saying that:

If she cant get back to her normal/sane self then she will forever be stuck in the gettho?

I dont care if you call it "mental gymnastics".

Its "mental gymnastics" to understand that when someone says he/she got a broken heart he/she is feeling sad over a love lost.

If you ever read deeper or more complex poetry you would be more used to it.

You think Lupe fiasco s hook on Blur my hands is stupid to right?

From the floating death, to the fire of death
To a flower outside my grave
An old man
Were you just being polite with your hands?

You would go, **but its impossible to go from a floating death to the fire of death **

Missing what hes trying to convey. Getting stuck in how he worded it or if its contradict reality.

But yeah, get hooked up on how i worded my break down instead of the break down it self. Like you said: "You seem to have missed that essential point."


Im not mad, Im having a conversation on the level of Kendricks lyrics. You are the one that keep deflecting, bringing up new reasons why Kendrick suck and your view on Kendrick fans.

Even when I challenge you on the topic on why he is cliche you dodge it with:

"You know what... I'm just gonna stop here. Can't waste my time debating idiots enamored with cliche music. I've said this before but Kendrick stans are some of the dumbest fans in modern hip hop. You're easily impressed by weak shyt but we're not. Don't get mad when we state our opinions and you feel the need to 'remind' us we trolling though you're desperate to know our opinion".

You cant waist your time since you painted your self into a corner. You keep contradicting yourself so you throw out new outlandish statements to get your self out of it.



This discussion started cus you didnt back up your statement on why Kendricks lyrics is trash.

I call you out on it. You didnt come with your own points or examples so instead you deflected and told me to do the work for you and come up with lines that you could dismiss.

I told you why singling out lines is a shallow way to determined a rappers lyrical level but I entertained you anyway since I knew you would do the same thing you are doing now. Take the easy way out saying its my fault that you cant prove your point.

Then you clown and make strawman arguments about why the lines are bad. You says it lack depth just proving me right in how shallow it is to judge his skill level from a few bars. Instead you start call it cliche and boring.

I go on to call you out on the cliche part since boring is a personal preference and has nothing to do with his skill level.

You go on to show how clearly biased you are calling Kendrick cliche when using common metaphors, but if he comes up with his own metaphors you cant picture it and say its lack poetic meaning. Since you couldnt show us that Kendricks lyrics is trash (even on you own terms ) you are trying to sneak out the conversation by calling every Kendrick fan dumb.

I have done what ever you asked of me and I have sticked to the topic.

Now its your turn to do the same and show me the reason on why you think Sing about me is Cliche.

But since you hate to write your own arguments on a topic I make it easy for you. You dont have to say WHY Sing about me is Cliche. Just show me two other rap songs that handle similar themes in a similar way but is not cliche.

Hopefully you could give me some examples on why that is. But that is hoping for to much I guess.




And don't try to dodge it by saying the nature of Sing about me is so cliche that its impossible to make a song not cliche on the subject.

Because if thats the case. Then all you have to do is post ONE song that have similar themes done in a similar way. Since its cliche there must be thousands of songs out there similar to sing about me,

so this is easy for you dude.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Kendrick makes shyt that hard to have replay value

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

In reality, Kendrick is in a long lineage of West Coast lyricists who've used the same style he uses to great effect either as a "casual observer" or "active". Case in point, Boots Riley:



That's the essence of what Kendrick is going for when he makes a song like this:

 

[CashmereThoughts]

Kendrick is a lyricist.

Take a song like rigamortis and tell me that's not "lyrical"

 

[SirBiatch]

"denim" is a substitute for 'jeans' which is a sound play on words for 'gene'. Cute but that's middle school shyt. And it sounds stupid as fukk to say [translated] "I"ll probably be in the gene of a family gene."

Ow, you are deflecting again I see.
So you actually think Kendrick just said (using your deconstruction):

If I cant get back to being normal I will be in the pants of a family gene,
that show women to be themself or better then that, a leader

except I never said that, and what I actually said was clear as day.

You're conflating two different points I brought up (one is mixed-metaphors, the other is lame wordplay) either out of cowardice or you're just that dumb.

This is why I don't debate stans once I realize they are stans. So consider this my last response. We won't be debating anything Kendrick.
But you're welcome to keep checking for my opinions though

 

[Jack Don the G]

Spoiler

So we agree, Kendrick is not trash or cliche.

Now that wasn't so hard was it? But why not admit it after I pointed it out the first time? Could have saved us a lot of time and feelings being hurt.

 

[FruitOfTheVale]

Now its your turn to do the same and show me the reason on why you think Sing about me is Cliche.

But since you hate to write your own arguments on a topic I make it easy for you. You dont have to say WHY Sing about me is Cliche. Just show me two other rap songs that handle similar themes in a similar way but is not cliche.

Hopefully you could also give me some examples/reasons on why that is. But that is hoping for to much I guess.




And don't try to dodge it by saying the nature of Sing about me is so cliche that its impossible to make a song not cliche on the subject.

Because if thats the case. Then all you have to do is post ONE song that have similar themes done in a similar way. Since its cliche there must be thousands of songs out there similar to sing about me,

so this is easy for you dude.

The topic is not cliche but it has been done before to some degree (i.e. like that Coup song I just posted). The way Kendrick handled it on that song IS cliche to an extent as far as the portrayal of the girl's thought process and even the limited extent he broke down her situation. He didn't go deep into it... It was a good verse but not a particularly insightful one.

 

[Jack Don the G]

except I never said that, and what I actually said was clear as day.

You're conflating two different points I brought up (one is mixed-metaphors, the other is lame wordplay) either out of cowardice or you're just that dumb.

This is why I don't debate stans once I realize they are stans. So consider this my last response. We won't be debating anything Kendrick. But you're welcome to keep checking for my opinions though

Oh no, you exposed your self .

Why go and destroy something so beautiful? That pretty facade of yours that your not a troll.

And to think that all you had to do was post one song that showed how cliche Kendrick is. Its was so easy man and with a reward so big at that. You would make all the valid points I made through out the thread seem worthless
since you would expose me with your deep hip hop knowledge of whats cliche and not.

Thanks for the sparring tho.

It truly was fun to see of far you could paint yourself into the corner. And you did it with such a finess

To bad I didnt get to watch you crawl out of that cliche trap you set for your self tho.

That would have been something else.

But that wont ever happen since its impossible to bait a expert baiter