How does Black income inequality change the importance of The Talented Tenth?

[DrBanneker]

I went into some Census data here: Historical Income Tables: Income Inequality

to try to see how the wealth inequality in regards to the Talented Tenth has evolved over time. They don't give the 10th percentile breakout but I estimated it and below is a comparable graph of the share of Black America's aggregate income held by the Talented Tenth (top 10%) and the lowest 75% of Black America

As you can seem, the bottom 75% of Black folks once held substantially more of the community wealth than the combined Talented Tenth but that consistently eroded over time since the Civil Rights Movement, finally flipping soon after the 2008 Global Financial Crisis. The Talented Tenth's share has grown from about 1/3 to around 40% while the Bottom 75%, who once had a shade less than half of the community's wealth, has dropped to 37-38%.

Not only is the Talented Tenth at 40%, the top 5% of Black folks have 24% of Black income (about 1/4) currently where they were once only like 15% in 1967.

Not counting wealth gaps with other groups, Black folks have the highest income inequality of all groups in the US. Does that make the mission of the top (Talented Tenth etc.) more important or are the class divides getting so wide that both sides are disconnecting from each other and will advocate more for their own interests alone?


I am sure the usual crew will have good insights @get these nets @invalid @HarlemHottie @Yinny @Uachet @Suge Shot Me @Anerdyblackguy @tuckgod @Wiseborn @O.Red @Piff Perkins @CreepyMcCreeperson

 

[CHICAGO]

RESULT OF PRO SPORTS MONEY
COUPLED WITH THE OTHER THINGS
YOU LISTED


​

 

[CopiousX]

You have to factor in greater participation in the stock market. Wealthy , educated people have excellent stock portfolios and benefit from excellent stock matching.



The same factors that empowered the 10%, the 1%, and the 0.1% in the greater white community have also helped black people . And even moreso, since we tend to be very suspicious of markets the poorer we get.


This is particularly important because the stock market had its biggest gains proportionally in the last 15 or so years in it's entire history due to unpresidented gains by the tech sector. This is all stuff that bottom 75 gets less of. Non-coincidentally, that amazing stock run aligns with your chart of when the top 10% surpassed the bottom 75% in black wealth metrics

In fact the only place where I'm seeing the bottom 75% Make gains on par with the stock market is from crypto. And this is primarily from the young, since older people are hesitant.



But despite the greater power of our talented tenth, I don't expect them to behave any better in 2025 than they did in 1925 during WEB du Bois' experiments . We got to face the fact that rich people are inherently selfish. And I'm tempted to side with WEB du Bois' memoirs that say this selfishness is a race blind principal of the wealthy.

 

[get these nets]

Thanks for the info.
Will weigh in later, but the first thing I noted was the immediate post-Civil Rights Acts spike which marks the beginning of the graph.
That was one of the intentions of the CRM, to open up economic opportunites/remove barriers for Black people.

 

[WIA20XX]

Subs.

 

[Neuromancer]

Subs buddy.

 

[DonB90]

Subs.

Subs buddy.

Gah damn it even that much to read.

Basically the communal wealth amongst Black people has shifted from the lower/middle class to the upper class

 

[MoshpitMazi]

Subs

 

[HarlemHottie]

Inverse correlation, huh? Explains a lot of the Boule class' moves and opinions. It also explain the candidates they push and why they're so obviously against anything that might actually improve the fortunes of the lower 75%.

Excellent graph (bc it proves me right).

 

[WIA20XX]

Does that make the mission of the top (Talented Tenth etc.) more important or are the class divides getting so wide that both sides are disconnecting from each other and will advocate more for their own interests alone?

I guess the question here is, what's the mission of the Talented Tenth?

To follow on, how many members of the talented tenth agree with the mission?

And of those that agree, how many are in a position to effect the mission?

I've personally thought that a Henry Ford/Michael Dell figure was needed, in fact dozens of industrialists.
The only way to bring the Black mass up - was to operate like a global multi-national.

As I've grown up, I've made my few little dollars doing white collar work - but the cats that were really getting it - they doing land deals and government contracting. On the one hand, hiring some black folks to renovate a house is cool, and putting on some lawyers and accountants to do the govt deals is nice - but it's not Bezos nice - where you got states giving all types of benefits and deals to bring your business...

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

Let me add this lil caveat…

The financial tenth doesn’t necessarily equate to the “talented tenth”. That is all….

 

[CopiousX]

I guess the question here is, what's the mission of the Talented Tenth?

To follow on, how many members of the talented tenth agree with the mission?

And of those that agree, how many are in a position to effect the mission?

I've personally thought that a Henry Ford/Michael Dell figure was needed, in fact dozens of industrialists.
The only way to bring the Black mass up - was to operate like a global multi-national.

As I've grown up, I've made my few little dollars doing white collar work - but the cats that were really getting it - they doing land deals and government contracting. On the one hand, hiring some black folks to renovate a house is cool, and putting on some lawyers and accountants to do the govt deals is nice - but it's not Bezos nice - where you got states giving all types of benefits and deals to bring your business...

Doesn't work that way . BookerT and Dubois had this same argument in the early 20th. We keep repeating the exact same mistakes of prior generations.

Spoiler: Duboi's conundrum repeating itself in 2025

Because few of the tenth identity with blackness, their mission will be personal (1) and they won't agree with the general black mission (2).
You will get a bunch of David Stewards that work exclusively with white people, servicing white corporate clients, with a board and corporate leadership composed mostly of whites and asians. You have the exact same phenomenon playing out in high finance with Robert Smith. This is the stuff that WEB DuBois was appalled by from his original talented tenth experiment in his essay Dusk of Dawn.

And I don't think it's a matter of ideology or training, because Dubois personally tutored these people in pro-black ideology and they ignored it. And I doubt that we're going to come up with a curriculum to fix this today.

I think booker Ts approach is better. Instead of one selfish b*stard owning a car company, you would have millions of poor unskilled black people upskill to become car mechanics, instantly increasing their income/saving capacity/usefulness to the greater economy . Or instead of minting another tech Steward, you would mint thousands of it-network brehs .

Spoiler: A modern Take on BookerT's model

Cooperatives weren't quite a thing back BookerT's era , but I think you could build up from this base of black trade brehs. So the million mechanics can form a Napa Autoparts or jiffy lube as their billion firm. Alternatively , black people would fill these positions throughout an entire chain that already exists and just take it over, selectively promoting their own people and own interests. Indians move like this heavy. They fill the lower rungs and build upwards instead of of relying on a few Shiv Nadars to start an economic behemoth. This is how you get Bezos' level influence from the little guys working together .

The nice little bonus of Booker t's model, is that the children of these newly minted trades people would be upwardly mobile enough to get the more sexy jobs in society like your lawyers, doctors, board members, etc. Thus the wealth gap for the 75% is plugged by a stronger base of better skilled common people, and their highly skilled descendants.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Frankly, immigration, housing crash, and less and less men going to and graduating college. Would explain the flip.

 

[WIA20XX]

I think booker Ts approach is better. Instead of one selfish b*stard owning a car company, you would have millions of poor unskilled black people upskill to become car mechanics, instantly increasing their income/saving capacity/usefulness to the greater economy . Or instead of minting another tech Steward, you would mint thousands of it-network brehs .

That's essentialy what we have now.

For the top 1% - The David Stewarts and Robert Smiths basically hire whites (and adjacents) and serve whites (albeit in corporate form). Other 1%'s like Oprah put on whoever - but her industry is both important and frivolous at the same time. The rest of the people in the entertainment/athletics try to replicate government functions by opening schools - but those charities are essentially money pits.

For the middle 50% - The barriers have been greatly lowered for trade school, unions, colleges, etc - and at a population level, black people have taken advantage of it. The poverty #'s for black people have halved since desegregation.

The vast majority of Black people have moved away from agriculture - In 2025 - Most of us are not farmers/sharecroppers.

So what the problem is?

What's the solution?

Better integration with white companies that serve white people, at the top end and the middle?

Part of the problem with WEB and Booker, imo, was that they saw themselves as taking part in this society - just at different levels.

Spoiler: A modern Take on BookerT's model

Cooperatives weren't quite a thing back BookerT's era , but I think you could build up from this base of black trade brehs. So the million mechanics can form a Napa Autoparts or jiffy lube as their billion firm. Alternatively , black people would fill these positions throughout an entire chain that already exists and just take it over, selectively promoting their own interests. Indians move like this heavy. They fill the lower rungs and build upwards instead of of relying on a few Shiv Nadars to start an economic behemoth. This is how you get Bezos' level influence from the little guys working together .

The nice little bonus of Booker t's model, is that the children of these newly minted trades people would be upwardly mobile enough to get the more sexy jobs in society like your lawyers, doctors, board members, etc. Thus the wealth gap for the 75% is plugged by a stronger base of better skilled common people, and their highly skilled descendants.

 

[IIVI]

Reagonomics.

This country is getting worse and worse for poor and Middle class people who are trying to do it on their own.

There is no safety net in America so it can keep getting worse until someone hits rock bottom, but if you can find a good opportunity to sacrifice independence in order to work together a great amount of wealth can be made. That’s how Mexicans and other groups of people do it: multiple families to a single home, pay it off and keep it moving.

Most Americans are sometimes too independent and lose the fact there’s an insane amount of strength in numbers. You got to find a group of trustworthy people (family ideally) and build from there. Problem is a lot of people don’t want to share a house because they want independence and to be a boss or they run into a grifter /conman that wipes them out. That’s why family got to be tight and is safer. Families living with each other is actually insanely popular in other cultures and saves a lot of money.