How does Black income inequality change the importance of The Talented Tenth?

[BigMan]

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I believe in 2025 we should admit that there are substantial class differences among black people

The black population is incredibly heterogeneous now and thus different groups have different priorities, interests, and values.

 

[CreepyMcCreeperson]

There’s a documentary called Sag Harbor about the black section of the Hamptons. It was the first place black people were allowed to purchase waterfront property. They talked about the younger generation selling off the property, and moving to the city, and they interviewed white people who were thrilled to purchase “cheap” property in the Hamptons. Other properties weren’t maintained.

Every other group knows how to assimilate enough to make money, but builds and spends with their own, but us. With that said, every other group is mostly raised in two parent households. Meanwhile, we’re on social media criticizing each other, and arguing about stupid stuff.

 

[Kenny West]

This seems to trend exactly in line with American income inequality post recession across all demographics.

 

[WIA20XX]

There’s a documentary called Sag Harbor about the black section of the Hamptons. It was the first place black people were allowed to purchase waterfront property. They talked about the younger generation selling off the property, and moving to the city, and they interviewed white people who were thrilled to purchase “cheap” property in the Hamptons. Other properties weren’t maintained.

Every other group knows how to assimilate enough to make money, but builds and spends with their own, but us. With that said, every other group is mostly raised in two parent households. Meanwhile, we’re on social media criticizing each other, and arguing about stupid stuff.

I get it.

Trying to keep a vacation property that only gets used 1 season a year is very difficult.

The children of these parents just don't earn enough money to justify having a "summer" home.

Not only do you have to pay taxes, do maintenance, but you also need enough bread coming in so that you can "summer" - not work for 10-16 weeks out of the year.

So what's the real issue here? Like what could they have done?

It's the same issue with Granny selling her East Coast home (to help finance here retirement), to retire someplace cheap down South. And when the time comes, there's a down south property that nobody lives near and can't rent out.

Rather than blame the families, we gotta understand what's happening at a higher level.

Why do the parents need to leave the high cost of living area to move to a low cost of living area?
How come the kids can't hold the property?

It's not simply lack of will or desire or knowledge.

 

[DrBanneker]

You have to factor in greater participation in the stock market. Wealthy , educated people have excellent stock portfolios and benefit from excellent stock matching.



The same factors that empowered the 10%, the 1%, and the 0.1% in the greater white community have also helped black people . And even moreso, since we tend to be very suspicious of markets the poorer we get.


This is particularly important because the stock market had its biggest gains proportionally in the last 15 or so years in it's entire history due to unpresidented gains by the tech sector. This is all stuff that bottom 75 gets less of. Non-coincidentally, that amazing stock run aligns with your chart of when the top 10% surpassed the bottom 75% in black wealth metrics

In fact the only place where I'm seeing the bottom 75% Make gains on par with the stock market is from crypto. And this is primarily from the young, since older people are hesitant.



But despite the greater power of our talented tenth, I don't expect them to behave any better in 2025 than they did in 1925 during WEB du Bois' experiments . We got to face the fact that rich people are inherently selfish. And I'm tempted to side with WEB du Bois' memoirs that say this selfishness is a race blind principal of the wealthy.

This is a great underappreciated point. Income from assets has way overtaken that from salaries etc. and the poorest are SOL in most asset classes.

 

[DrBanneker]

Let me add this lil caveat…

The financial tenth doesn’t necessarily equate to the “talented tenth”. That is all….

I agree. This may be a misnomer for all the Talented Tenth but I thought the overlap made it a proxy for discussion using numbers.

 

[WIA20XX]

This seems to trend exactly in line with American income inequality post recession across all demographics.

This is true, but even when the stats are generalized, Black Folks tend to be on the bottom of them.

Unemployment
Health Care
Education

White people catch a cold, Black people get Cancer.

 

[get these nets]

Not counting wealth gaps with other groups, Black folks have the highest income inequality of all groups in the US. Does that make the mission of the top (Talented Tenth etc.) more important or are the class divides getting so wide that both sides are disconnecting from each other and will advocate more for their own interests alone?

My view has always been that the purpose of those who have earned a measure of financial stability and success is to provide resources that supplement what the other members of the group have access to.

Primarily resources for formal education and/or vocational training. The Black middle and upper class has expanded in the time range in the graph, because people had access to additional resources not available to previous generations of their families.

So, a good % of the current 10% has direct family/community ties to the 75%, and is providing those resources formally and informally. And will continue to do so.

I think there is disconnect and distancing in terms of residence and social interaction, as is the case with other racial and ethnic groups, but that wont stop Black 10% from reaching back.

 

[WIA20XX]

Since the Talented 10th is in this thread,

If Bezos dropped a 100 milli on you like he did Van Jones,

Could you put that money to work for the 35-45 million black people in this country?

Keep in mind, Howard University spends 1B (with a B) every year.

Howard University - Nonprofit Explorer - ProPublica

Since 2013, the IRS has released data culled from millions of nonprofit tax filings. Use this database to find organizations and see details like their executive compensation, revenue and expenses, as well as download tax filings going back as far as 2001.

projects.propublica.org

76K per student, and they have ~13,000 students

 

[CreepyMcCreeperson]

I get it.

Trying to keep a vacation property that only gets used 1 season a year is very difficult.

The children of these parents just don't earn enough money to justify having a "summer" home.

Not only do you have to pay taxes, do maintenance, but you also need enough bread coming in so that you can "summer" - not work for 10-16 weeks out of the year.

So what's the real issue here? Like what could they have done?

It's the same issue with Granny selling her East Coast home (to help finance here retirement), to retire someplace cheap down South. And when the time comes, there's a down south property that nobody lives near and can't rent out.

Rather than blame the families, we gotta understand what's happening at a higher level.

Why do the parents need to leave the high cost of living area to move to a low cost of living area?
How come the kids can't hold the property?

It's not simply lack of will or desire or knowledge.

I guess, but these were old money black kids. They just wanted to live in a different environment, and there weren’t enough black buyers around. That’s also something to consider. That demographic of black folks has always been small. Who’s to say others wanted to buy property there? Times changed. People don’t get married, and buy homes in their 20s anymore. A 25 year old single person doesn’t want to live in a neighborhood like that. They want a nice Manhattan apartment. I get it. But it still opened the door for others to move in, and made fewer homes for black families looking for upscale black neighborhoods.

 

[trap101-ETHout-Allegri-In]

Proper constructive conversation on the board......This is what we need more of.

 

[WIA20XX]

I guess, but these were old money black kids. They just wanted to live in a different environment, and there weren’t enough black buyers around. That’s also something to consider.

Yup. And that's a function of a few things. Lack of Black Progress, in general. And massive 0.1% white progress.

That demographic of black folks has always been small. Who’s to say others wanted to buy property there? Times changed. People don’t get married, and buy homes in their 20s anymore.

And in my mind that's a combination of social mores and economics, but also it's just more expensive to get married and raise a family.

A 25 year old single person doesn’t want to live in a neighborhood like that. They want a nice Manhattan apartment. I get it. But it still opened the door for others to move in, and made fewer homes for black families looking for upscale black neighborhoods.

Sure.

But even in 2025, there's plenty of land in America.

There's no reason that 1%er ATL or DC Black folks couldn't come together and buy raw land, subdivide it, construct it, and price it accordingly....

I live in the poorest Ward in DC, but next to one of the richest 80% black neighborhoods i've ever seen. But even then, the highest of the highs are houses that are 1M, which is only double what the rest of SE DC pays.

But Cross the river to the "white" side, and you can't buy a SFH for 1M. (in the nicest parts of the city).
And a lot of this gentrification (inducement of white yuppies to move here) is within the last 10-15 years.

There's something intangible, indescribable about Black Income, Black Wealth, Black Business, and Black Real Estate

I can't get my head around it, other than to know that whatever Black people have that is valuable to white people/to others - they manage to take from us and profit greater than we can, even when we maintain control.

 

[DrBanneker]

Yup. And that's a function of a few things. Lack of Black Progress, in general. And massive 0.1% white progress.



And in my mind that's a combination of social mores and economics, but also it's just more expensive to get married and raise a family.



Sure.

But even in 2025, there's plenty of land in America.

There's no reason that 1%er ATL or DC Black folks couldn't come together and buy raw land, subdivide it, construct it, and price it accordingly....

I live in the poorest Ward in DC, but next to one of the richest 80% black neighborhoods i've ever seen. But even then, the highest of the highs are houses that are 1M, which is only double what the rest of SE DC pays.

But Cross the river to the "white" side, and you can't buy a SFH for 1M. (in the nicest parts of the city).
And a lot of this gentrification (inducement of white yuppies to move here) is within the last 10-15 years.

There's something intangible, indescribable about Black Income, Black Wealth, Black Business, and Black Real Estate

I can't get my head around it, other than to know that whatever Black people have that is valuable to white people/to others - they manage to take from us and profit greater than we can, even when we maintain control.

I did a post a while back with this chart on census tracts (collections of neighborhoods basically) that are both majority Black and have $100k+ in median household earnings. Basically only three metros: DC/Baltimore, Atlanta, LA, and NYC have this in any number at 50% of such neighborhoods are in PG County ALONE. Add in Charles and Anne Arundel and like 61% of high income Black neighborhoods are in DC. Most other places Black folks are a large percent (like 20-30%) or a scattered few in White owned areas. Black collective wealth shouldn't be this concentrated in a few areas. I wish every metro had a couple areas like this.

 

[desjardins]

Not good obviously but I wonder what can be derived from this beyond the obvious
Black income is so down bad relative to other races I was in like top 3-4% for my cohort and I'm just a regular guy who yields ZERO power or influence in the real world
This chart might be more indicative of a small % of black people who've managed to change classes in their lifetime but aren't really benefiting from "Wealth inequality" in any meaningful way

 

[WIA20XX]

Black collective wealth shouldn't be this concentrated in a few areas.

It shouldn't be, but it is.

In the DMV, The only reason that Black people can amass this sort of "wealth", is that the Fed Government CAN'T* discriminate.
(*best believe they try)

Plenty of white people work at these agencies, prolly the majority. Trust me on this. (I wonder who's been most affected by DOGE )

When we compete on a level playing field? We win.

The over-arching problem, to me at least, is that the rest of the economy isn't as accommodating. There should be a lot more Black owned Oil and Gas companies in TX and LA. There should be black owned industrial tooling firms in the Midwest. There should be more black run start ups in Oakland.

HBCU's shoulda been building business incubators - and if there are some - they should be as well known as Y-Combinator.

Which just leads back to the same stuff we've been discussion.

1) Top Down - Dozens of Black Industrialists owning medium/large firms that can recognize (and remunerate) Black Talent.

2) Bottom Up - Along with a general "up-skilling" of the Black masses.

Plus some FOR PROFIT economic pooling - i.e. Black Banks (and Angel Investing/Venture Capital/Commercial Lenders) - that takes black savings and reinvests into Black Owned businesses that hire QUALIFIED Black people at the level the Fed Government and make profits.


It only takes 1 successful thing for people to jump in and copy