HOW in the hell was Pac better than Nas at rapping?

mobbinfms

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No shyt Sherlock.

If you a rapping/writing songs you're a lyricist. Doesn't mean you are good, or rank as an elite in the craft.

Pac is one of the most prolific song writers of any genre, let alone hip hop, by definition. When comparing two of hip hops elite you really gotta start with the basis of lyricism, which is song writing. He's easily a better song writer than nas, no matter how much more complex it may sound to whoever.

TS is always a little bit irrational with the nauze hate but a lot of his argument is grounded in reality, it's nikkas that would beast on nas from a technical standpoint but they can't write songs as well.

Lupe is a good example of this, and i'm a HUGE fan of his, he's not a bad song writer IMO, but his complexity over nas (over many emcees actually) doesn't do much for him in the way of delivering his messages in a concise/powerful manner.

You're somehow still missing the point. Lyricist is not used as a synonym for song writer in hip hop.

Song writing ability - is one of those terms that doesn't really mean anything to me. What does it mean to you? Like the ability to do something off the beaten path? I Gave You Power? One Mic? Rewind?
Or does it mean the ability to craft a catchy song that will get radio play?
 

Fury616

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Pac had better songs, better flow, better charisma, more passion, better delivery, better production, his tenacity on the mic was unmatched.....dude was like a Mike Tyson on the mic........and no opponents really wanted it with Pac.......then the quotables....... i mean come on people........ Nas does deserve to be in the sentence with Pac......but its no comparision at all in terms of who is better........its Pac downs all day......:pachaha:

People forget how other rappers were shook of Pac...nobody wanted to beef wit Pac on the mic cuz they record sells would most likely be nonexistent after that. His fanbase was too fukking big. Hit'em Up is probably the most basic diss track ever but it's also the most loudest. THat says enough about his charisma.
 

SunZoo

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You're somehow still missing the point. Lyricist is not used as a synonym for song writer in hip hop.

I get the point...everybody and their mama has their own definition of "lyricist", or lyricism based on what brand or style of lyricism they like.

The problem is, there is a great deal of subjectivity when you start breaking down rhyme schemes, multis, metas and all kinds of other devices that all lead back to the one true purpose, writing a fukking song or piece. I mean who's a better song writer is already going to be a debate with plenty of grey area, no need to list of 20 some odd specialist skills to put together a criteria who can be a "lyricist" in the "hip hop" definition of the term, because that will change from person to person. We can all agree that lyricists write songs, structured or not, that is usually the form in which MC's present their work.

All of those specialist skills add up to how well you translate your message. I don't think you would go about comparing painters on some "he uses sponges better than this cat", whatever tools he's applying to his craft, the end result is a work of art.

I appreciate the effort, and specialist skill applied by canibus for something like "poet laureate infinity", but as a work of art, as a written piece it's not going to rank up there with something like "mastermind" from nas IMO.

Song writing ability - is one of those terms that doesn't really mean anything to me. What does it mean to you? Like the ability to do something off the beaten path? I Gave You Power? One Mic? Rewind?
Or does it mean the ability to craft a catchy song that will get radio play?

To me song writing ability is really just being able to take your ideas and format them in a clear, concise way. There are no real prerequisites for being catchy, complex or even terribly "original". You just need to be able to connect with the listener.

In pac's case, his ability to do the catchy/party shyt and then be able to swing back and forth between social commentary, street shyt..the fact that he had HITS in all of these categories is a testament to his diversity. ....in fact, one of the BIGGEST draws for pac as an artist is his connection with WOMEN.

This is something that is under appreciated/underrated especially when compared to his contemporaries.

Coming up i was a huge LL fan, and he was really on the leading edge of that "for the ladies" but there's a huge difference between "i need love" and "can you get away", both songs are some mack shyt but the empathy shown...unmatched by most nikkas to ever pick up a pen, to be able to relate to the one demographic that buys the records but has little voice in actual culture, i always thought that was important.

And that's not even to get into songs like dear mama, keep your head up, brenda, mamas just a little girl ect....that's something nas has never really been able to do, not effectively, on a chill/party/sexual level or socially.
 

Mac Casper

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"Pac is one of the most prolific song writers of any genre, let alone hip hop, by definition. When comparing two of hip hops elite you really gotta start with the basis of lyricism, which is song writing. He's easily a better song writer than nas, no matter how much more complex it may sound to whoever."

- SunZoo


another end thread/

Grabbing a couple words out of a dictionary is :laff: when compared to the work of any REAL songwriter .
 

blackslash

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"Pac is one of the most prolific song writers of any genre, let alone hip hop, by definition. When comparing two of hip hops elite you really gotta start with the basis of lyricism, which is song writing. He's easily a better song writer than nas, no matter how much more complex it may sound to whoever."

- SunZoo


another end thread/

Grabbing a couple words out of a dictionary is :laff: when compared to the work of any REAL songwriter .

:obama::salute:
 

Blackking

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The bullet goes back in the gun
The bullet hole's closin this chest of a nikka
Now he back to square one
Screamin, "Shoot don't please"
I put my fifth back on my hip
It's like a VCR rewindin a hit
He put his hands back on his bytch
My caravan doors open up
I jumped back in the van and closed it shut
Goin reverse, slowly prepared
My nikka Jungle utters out somethin crazy like, "Go he there"
Sittin in back of this chair, we hittin the roach
The smoke goes back in the blunt, the blunt gets bigger in growth
Jungle unrolls it, put his weed back in the jar
The blunt turns back into a cigar
We listen to Stevie, it sounded like heavy metal fans
Spinnin records backwards of AC/DC
I give my nikkas dap, jump out the van back first
Back upstairs, took off the black shirt
I'm in the crib with the phone to my ear
Listen up so y'all can figure out the poem real clear
The voice on the phone was like, "Outside right we"
So with my mouth wide, holdin my heat
Bullets I had plenty to squeeze, plenty for ya
Cause Jungle said, "Block your on enemy's the"
Hung up the phone, then the phone rang
I'm laid in the bed thinkin 'bout this pretty young thing
Who left, she came back, her clothes just fell to the rug
She fell to my bed and gave me a hug
I told her, "No hell"
She talkin 'bout, "Me kiss"
Bobbed her head then spit the nut back in my dikk
Started suckin with no hands, a whole lotta spit
Then got up and put her bra back on her t*ts
Got fully dressed and told me, "Stressed really I'm"
 

Mac Casper

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You're somehow still missing the point. Lyricist is not used as a synonym for song writer in hip hop.

Song writing ability - is one of those terms that doesn't really mean anything to me. What does it mean to you? Like the ability to do something off the beaten path? I Gave You Power? One Mic? Rewind?
Or does it mean the ability to craft a catchy song that will get radio play?

:snoop:
 

mobbinfms

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I get the point...everybody and their mama has their own definition of "lyricist", or lyricism based on what brand or style of lyricism they like.

The problem is, there is a great deal of subjectivity when you start breaking down rhyme schemes, multis, metas and all kinds of other devices that all lead back to the one true purpose, writing a fukking song or piece. I mean who's a better song writer is already going to be a debate with plenty of grey area, no need to list of 20 some odd specialist skills to put together a criteria who can be a "lyricist" in the "hip hop" definition of the term, because that will change from person to person. We can all agree that lyricists write songs, structured or not, that is usually the form in which MC's present their work.

All of those specialist skills add up to how well you translate your message. I don't think you would go about comparing painters on some "he uses sponges better than this cat", whatever tools he's applying to his craft, the end result is a work of art.

I appreciate the effort, and specialist skill applied by canibus for something like "poet laureate infinity", but as a work of art, as a written piece it's not going to rank up there with something like "mastermind" from nas IMO.



To me song writing ability is really just being able to take your ideas and format them in a clear, concise way. There are no real prerequisites for being catchy, complex or even terribly "original". You just need to be able to connect with the listener.

In pac's case, his ability to do the catchy/party shyt and then be able to swing back and forth between social commentary, street shyt..the fact that he had HITS in all of these categories is a testament to his diversity. ....in fact, one of the BIGGEST draws for pac as an artist is his connection with WOMEN.

This is something that is under appreciated/underrated especially when compared to his contemporaries.

Coming up i was a huge LL fan, and he was really on the leading edge of that "for the ladies" but there's a huge difference between "i need love" and "can you get away", both songs are some mack shyt but the empathy shown...unmatched by most nikkas to ever pick up a pen, to be able to relate to the one demographic that buys the records but has little voice in actual culture, i always thought that was important.

And that's not even to get into songs like dear mama, keep your head up, brenda, mamas just a little girl ect....that's something nas has never really been able to do, not effectively, on a chill/party/sexual level or socially.

First rate post. Well done.

I agree - all these terms are subjective and we all debate rapper vs. rapper using our own definitions which are often very dissimilar.

I think hip-hop has a certain construction to it - and we can all agree that Nas is more skilled than say Run DMC's earlier work - just the fundamental complexity of the structure of his rhymes. It gets more difficult when you start comparing rappers of an equal skill level. To me, Nas is on a higher level then Pac when it comes to the way he constructs his rhymes, but I can see how this would pale in comparison to some other qualities that Pac possessed as an artist.

I agree with you somewhat that Pac did have a certain way of connecting with women through his music and approaching the fairer sex with a degree of "empathy" that other rappers couldn't match. Can You Get Away is one of my favorite Pac songs because of the subtle approach he took to domestic violence. It was an unspoken understanding in that song - the empathy does come across.

Nas has never done that - but he has made songs devoted to women that are on a very high level. Black Girl Lost, the song about his mom (the name escapes me) and Bye Baby for example.

But that is a category I'll give to Pac though.

Ghost, of course, gets the award for mechanical descriptions of sex. The blow by blow if you will.
 
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jadakiss is more lyrical than jeezy


who makes better music :youngsabo:




see why this nas is morr lyrical shyt doesnt make him a better artist..



nas stans need to something to validate there dude i understand but its a dumb argument.. nas will never get the love/respect that pac has

2pac-o.gif


4 sho.....Pac made better music IMO

He had a natural "cool" or charisma that made him more relatable than Nas.

Some times, people don't want technically complicated lyrics.They want the simple truths.The heart and guts.

That's why I think, overall, Pac had more of a spiritual connection with people.Instead of putting words together to come off as some complex lyricist, Pac would take a complicated subject and simplify it.He brought a level of understanding and clarity that made people "feel" what he was saying.He was to rap what the Rock was to wrestling.. "The Peoples Champ"

He could connect with the everyday cat on a more visceral level than Nas.


Nas appeals to the hip hop purist who loves the technicalities of the art.

To me, Nas is the "purest" MC of all times.It's like he's the Peter Tosh to Tupac's Bob Marley.He's great, but he just can't move the masses like Pac.
 

Mac Casper

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How can you put it above all else if you can't define it?

:wtb:


I can define, I don't need to define it. If you need help defining songwriting there's something wrong buddy

and by that I mean . . what the hell is more important than songwriting? You really wanna go there . . I don't got time for this

*logs off*
 
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