How the Haitian Revolution changed America and ADOS forever

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

What counties in Alabama and Georgia?

Idk where in Georgia, it was before Emancipation and according to my fam. I'd have to look at something to make sure but I'm out of town. They've pretty much been in Calhoun county AL ever since.


Can you explain for everybody why this thread was requested? I was under the impression that it was to discuss how the Haitian Revolution and Louisiana Purchase and ultimately the Civil War. And I TRIED to address that in the OP, but it's devolved into asking where my family is from.

So again, why was this thread requested again???

 

[Secure Da Bag]

So again, why was this thread requested again???

Which post in the other thread did she neg?

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

Which post in the other thread did she neg?

ask her breh, she negged and can even tell you why.



I'm boarding my first cruise ship in a bit

 

[xoxodede]

Idk where in Georgia, it was before Emancipation and according to my fam. I'd have to look at something to make sure but I'm out of town. They've pretty much been in Calhoun county AL ever since.


Can you explain for everybody why this thread was requested? I was under the impression that it was to discuss how the Haitian Revolution and Louisiana Purchase and ultimately the Civil War. And I TRIED to address that in the OP, but it's devolved into asking where my family is from.

So again, why was this thread requested again???

I requested it due to you stating it sparked the CW. You bolded a article that stated it did - that I negged.

So, therefore I requested that you start this thread -- cause your source was wrong.

I also stated that in my first post in this thread.

You also posted a book recommendation in your second post in this thread alluding to the same thing. A book you posted based off the title mentioning Haitians and the CIVIL WAR.

 

[xoxodede]

Which post in the other thread did she neg?

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/a-sensible-opinion-about-ados.718743/page-4#post-34201814

ME:

↵
Thank you -- he claims to be a history major too... LOL.

Yeah. It's a mess in here.

First, much respect to Haitians and there ancestors who were involved in and started the Haitian Revolution.

Yes -- the Haitian Revolution did scare the U.S. - those who were in slave states. And YES -- it was heard about by SOME of the enslaved -- but not like that.

Also, uprisings and revolts were happening here before, during and after the Haitian Revolution.

And NO - The Haitian Revolution did not help "spark" the Civil War. People who are saying that are not well versed on U.S. during slavery and during the Civil War.
...the Haitian Revolution was a turning point in history, the repercussions of which extended far beyond the small island nation. Perhaps nowhere was its impact greater than in the United States, where Haiti’s slave revolt figured directly in two of the most significant events in United States history: the Louisiana Purchase and the American Civil War.​

...
HIM: he bolded the parts of the article below. I increase the font size.

The historical impact of the Haitian Revolution would extend far beyond the small Caribbean island. Without control of the crown jewel of its planned empire, France saw the Louisiana territory as a useless drain on its resources. Needing money for his renewed war with England, Napoleon sold the vast Louisiana territory to the United States on April 30, 1803, for about four cents an acre.[20] With this abrupt act, France removed itself as a power in the Western Hemisphere.

For the United States, the Louisiana Purchase was a turning point the historical importance of which has been ranked “next to the Declaration of Independence and the adoption of the Constitution.”[21] This single acquisition doubled the nation’s size, making it formidable enough to withstand almost any outside threat. It gave the country its heartland, as well as control of the Mississippi River and the important port city of New Orleans on the Gulf of Mexico.

...

In a broader sense, the Purchase fundamentally transformed the way Americans thought about themselves. The vast open spaces of the Louisiana territory drew immigrants from all over Europe, changing the character of the nation by increasing its social diversity.[24] The push to settle this new territory shifted the eyes of the country westward,[25] making further expansion almost inevitable and giving birth, if not to the term, at least to the forces behind “manifest destiny”–the idea that the United States had both a right and a duty to own and settle the entire continent. Before the Louisiana annexation, Americans “in many ways still had a colonial attitude; they still looked to England and to France.”[26] With the acquisition the Louisiana territory, their focus shifted to their own continent. “[F]or the first time, Americans became Americans as we know them, people with a continental view.[27]

...

But its impact did not stop there. The revolt of the Haitian slaves also influenced forces that helped foment what many have called the defining moment in American history: the Civil War. The push to create new states out of the vast Louisiana territory led to dissension between North and South over whether the new states would be admitted as slave or free.

The Haitian Revolution and the Forging of America

It's like y'all got a problem with every little thing that actually makes sense. There wouldn't BE the America we know today if it weren't for the Haitian Revolution. No St. Louis. No New Orleans. No "Sea to Shining Sea", No Civil War-- at least on the terms that it was fought, etc. The impact was enormous. Idk how else to break it down You're not arguing with me, you're arguing with reality.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

So as we all said before, the HR did impact the U.S., but it didn't spark the Civil War. I don't disagree with most of the facts he posted about the HR's impact on America and its politics. Only that the HR sparked the CW. Which it didn't. Secession did.

 

[xoxodede]

So as we all said before, the HR did impact the U.S., but it didn't spark the Civil War. I don't disagree with most of the facts he posted about the HR's impact on America and its politics. Only that the HR sparked the CW. Which it didn't. Secession did.

Agreed. And that is what my issue was and disagreed with.

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

I requested it due to you stating it sparked the CW. You bolded a article that stated it did - that I negged.

So, therefore I requested that you start this thread -- cause your source was wrong.

I also stated that in my first post in this thread.

You also posted a book recommendation in your second post in this thread alluding to the same thing. A book you posted based off the title mentioning Haitians and the CIVIL WAR.

I think the convo would be a lot easier if y'all actually read what I said rather than what think/want it to be. My exact words were

So the Haitian Revolution... doubled the size of the US... which made for new territory to expand slavery... which sparked the Civil War, but had nothing to do with the Civil War Everything happened in a vacuum. I hope you're grasping how ridiculous this sounds. If it weren't for the Haitian Revolution then America would be vastly different. It's hard to even imagine what things would be like today. Some of y'all need some history to go along with all that data.
​

I never said it sparked the Civil War. I noted the things it made way for here in America. We're not talking about the same WORLD if they lost their war, so idk why it's so hard to acknowledge the impact it had for our world.


EDIT: even the quote dede posted... never says it sparked the Civil War, it lays out how significant the Haitian Revolution was for US history. I'm on the boat now. I'll come back i in some days

 

[Ya' Cousin Cleon]

the audacity.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

so idk why it's so hard to acknowledge the impact it had for our world.

Everyone here has already acknowledged that the HR impacted the Colonial World even the U.S. At this point, you're arguing a strawman.

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

Everyone here has already acknowledged that the HR impacted the Colonial World even the U.S. At this point, you're arguing a strawman.

If we're in agreement then yall are arguing a strawman by trying to turn it into me saying it "sparked" the war, that we're the same ethnic group, all this shyt that I've continuously said is not my argument.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

If we're in agreement then yall are arguing a strawman by trying to turn it into me saying it "sparked" the war, that we're the same ethnic group, all this shyt that I've continuously said is not my argument.

So I guess this thread is done, since we're all in agreement.

Ironically, you have a boat to catch.

 

[you're NOT "n!ggas"]

So I guess this thread is done, since we're all in agreement.

Ironically, you have a boat to catch.

Y'all be great

 

[Samori Toure]

This reads Iike acknowledging Haitian accomplishments/influence is somehiw dissing ourselves-- I don't get why it has to be that way. You can try to separate our histories all you want cuz you "just dont" see the connection but the fact remains that the powers that be at the time understood what their moment meant for them and acted accordingly in their personal interest.

I still haven't seen anything arguing otherwise and you've already admitted that you don't know what things would be like without the revolution. You "just don't" like mingling them but that's the world and history. None of this shyt happens in a vacuum. Archduke Ferdinand was shot and somehow OUR ancestors wound up fighting in World War I.

The Haitian Revolution had about the same impact on the Civil War and slavery in the USA as the Mexican-American war did. The USA got the lands out west after defeating Mexico, which is how California, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, New Mexico and the remaining portion Texas got into the Union.


The same problem existed after the USA gained land from the Louisiana Purchase as did after the USA gained land after the Mexican-American War, which is that many of the settlers/homesteaders/land thieves and politicians did not want slavery expanded into those new territories because the small farmers would not have been able to compete financially with large plantation owners that had slave workforce; and the plantation owners would have eventually become a defacto ruling class in those States.

The foundation for the Civil War was laid much earlier than the Haitian Revolution. There was already issues with slavery at the time of the American Revolution, because the English and the Northern American Whites were undergoing anti-slavery sentiment at that time. The sentiment grew worse when the English gave slaves under their control freedom when they fought for England against the Americans. After that war the English kept interfering in American affairs and eventually they tapped into the anti-Union sentiment of Southerners. However, the English themselves were anti-slavery at that time so they were just using the Southerners to create friction with the Union; so England was not completely neutral during the Civil War. Then there were Supreme Court cases and the election of Abraham Lincoln that were the final issues leading up to the Civil War. Abraham Lincoln then pulled the same crap that the English pulled during the American Revolution by freeing slaves, except the slaves he freed were Southern slaves that he did not control, but he left the Northern slaves in bondage. The Civil War did not actually end slavery though. It was actually the passage of the 13th Amendment that ended human bondage in the USA.

In any event the lead up to the Civil War had a lot of different components and one of the biggest components that no one ever mentions is that the slaves themselves were getting in more and more rebellions. One of the biggest in the Western hemisphere was the Seminole Indian War in Florida, which was actually a large scale slave rebellion by the Gullah people.

 

[Samori Toure]

America as a country both physically and culturally would not be the same. That frontier mindset, etc all came as a result of the Louisiana Purchase. There may not have even BEEN an "America" by this point if it weren't for the Haitian Revolution.

For example: if France won, the contention could have easily become preserving what piece of America existed, rather than free vs slave states. What if THAT was the war and the US lost? We coulda been "French" talmbout FDOS There's too many variables to confidently say what would've happened without the HR. The only thing we can affirm is what it's success led to.

Yall keep saying "help/ful" and I never said that, not even in the original thread. I said their revolution had an impact globally and that's true. Its not as if that's resigned to us. Britain was shook and abolished slave trade, America followed suit which might explain WHY so many wanted to expand slavery in the west, etc. Personally, it's fascinating to see the ripple effect one tiny island had on the global order in a span of 5 years.

I was challenged to make a thread and I obliged It's a good topic

You are way overstating the case of the Haitian Revolution on the USA. The USA had already muscled European nations out of paint, which is why England and Spain territories in the Americas were already gone. France was going to lose its territories in the USA regardless of the outcome in Haiti, which is why they decided to cut bait and sell it off before the USA attacked them under a pretense of war. The USA settlers were already in those territories anyway, because they wanted to control the Mississippi River.

Besides that the USA had already mapped those territories, which is further proof that they intended to take them. Notice that in the 1700s places like North Carolina extended all the way through Tennessee to the Mississippi River. Memphis and the rest of West Tennessee was not part of the Louisiana Purchase until 1803, but you can clearly see that England (America) was laying claim to it as far back as the 1660s, which was well over 100 years before the Haitian Revolution. The same with Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, Kentucky, etc.

If the French had won in Haiti then France would have still sold the land to the USA, because they were heavily in debt and they needed cash because they were still at war in Europe.

I don't think that people truly grasp how insulated the USA is and has always been when it comes to foreign wars.