How will History look back on the OKC Thunder

[Microfracture]

Exactly. Which is why the would've have been any better with Harden (instead of Martin) if they were all healthy. What Harden provided for them was replaceable.

Please don't tell me you're serious with this?

Their contingency plan as you put it was only put into action because Martin came at an affordable price, providing the same scoring-output as Harden would've provided.

Did you watch ANY Thunder games that season? Martin NEVER started one game for them during the regular season. He came off the bench. He played the 6th man role, just as if Harden was still there.

James Harden is a flat out better player than Kevin Martin was. If what you said was true about Harden being easily replaceable, then why was Houston willing to trade assets and then max Harden out? He's the best 2-guard in the league despite the flaws in his game. You don't think Kevin Martin, Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Dion Waiters are steps down?

 

[the kid]

If Im being honest, that team with KD Harden and Russy was the Spurs Kryptonite. Seriously had trouble beating that team. And I for one am happy that they are no more.

 

[triplehate]

we'll say they garbage and never won shyt, we don't believe in nuance

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

James Harden is a flat out better player than Kevin Martin was.

Playmaking aside, they provided the same scoring-output for the Thunder. That's what matters. They didn't lose a step when Harden left. That's what matters.

If what you said was true about Harden being easily replaceable, then why was Houston willing to trade assets and then max Harden out?

Like I said above, they needed to take a chance on a wing player. Teams take chances on unproven players every season. Look at how many times "but he hasn't done anything in the league" is said in a thread where a player has just signed a max contract or contract that exceeds their output.

He's the best 2-guard in the league despite the flaws in his game. You don't think Kevin Martin, Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Dion Waiters are steps down?

See now. You can't do that. You can't work on that logical fallacy.

i) Harden wouldn't be the player he is now, if he stayed in OKC (he was ALWAYS going to leave, staying wasn't an option, so it's pointless to talk about him in the sense of being the best 2-guard)
ii) Kevin Martin, Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Dion Waiters are more than enough wing scoring to replace Harden's production
iii) OKC's problem isn't wing scoring; their problems lie in the front court and overall coaching - keeping Harden wouldn't change that

 

[Brozay]

If Harden was there, Roberson would still be the starting SG.

I seriously doubt that

 

[tremonthustler1]

I seriously doubt that

Then that team has 2 major flaws: no low post presence and no bench scoring.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

I seriously doubt that

Nothing would change.

Roberson would start. Harden would lead the second unit to keep the offense running when either one of KD/Westbrook were off the court. Harden would still get starters minutes at the 2 spot, he just wouldn't start.

 

[FTBS]

And as I said they weren't going to get more for him than what they received from the Rockets. There wasn't much to figure out - they tried trading for another wing piece but didn't have any luck, so this was the second-best option.

Because that team NEEDED to take a chance on a wing player to mold into franchise player. If the Rockets had two players of a Westbrook/KD-caliber on their roster, on their salaries would they be out there moving pieces trying to sign Harden to a max deal? Of course not. OKC received a 20-point-caliber scorer, a lottery-pick player, two first-round picks and a second-round pick for a '6th man' - they weren't going to get anything that exceeded that value with a S&T in the following season.

Teams sign players to max contracts, that haven't proven anything in the league everyday b.


20 ppg-caliber post players don't grow on trees and it's HIGHLY unlikely that they would've stumbled upon one when it came time to trade him.

How do you know they weren't gonna get more? They didn't have to trade him then. Really no way to say what couldn't have happened if they had kept him. Fact remains he got a max offer, so he had to have some value. That fact that teams sign guys that haven't proven anything all the time only supports my stance that they could've gotten a better package.

It's not about exceeding that it's about getting a better fit/more long term fix. You keep neglecting to mention that said 20 ppg scorer was a perimeter player and only had one year left and was gone after that year and wasn't as good as Harden to begin with. Might well had kept Harden another year and let him go. Still would've had the option to trade him since he was gonna be restricted. Rockets prolly woulda still been tryna to get him then.

They didn't even need a 20 ppg post player, a quality post threat that keeps defenses honest and/or helps protect the rim would've done. Wasn't Jefferson available around that time? The Bulls stay having a glut of big dudes. Look what the Pelican got Asik for. Probably coulda got Pau from LA.

 

[Brozay]

Then that team has 2 major flaws: no low post presence and no bench scoring.

Nothing would change.

Roberson would start. Harden would lead the second unit to keep the offense running when either one of KD/Westbrook were off the court. Harden would get more minutes than Roberson.

I dunno, we dont know who they would have acquired if they kept Harden

Regardless, they should have just footed the bill to keep him (yes, even if it meant paying the tax)

 

[StraxStrax]

 

[Big Boss]

I hate writing obits for things in the present and I actually rode with the Harden trade at the time. However as time goes by that trade is looking more and more like at 30,000 word Bill Simmons column waiting to happen. If KD and Russ go elsewhere the OKC FO would have made the most drastic transition from ahead of the curve geniuses to "what the fukk where they thinking" level idiots that I can think of. The craziest part is how close they were to taking over the league just 3 short years ago. Each of the first four games in that Finals were close and could have gone either way. Just imagine how differently history goes if they had . Instead they look on course to become this generation's version of the 80s' Rockets or 80/90s Trailblazers.

Everybody would have been on the durant bandwagon, remember lebron still hadnt won a ring at the time

 

[Microfracture]

Playmaking aside, they provided the same scoring-output for the Thunder. That's what matters. They didn't lose a step when Harden left. That's what matters.

Like I said above, they needed to take a chance on a wing player. Teams take chances on unproven players every season. Look at how many times "but he hasn't done anything in the league" is said in a thread where a player has just signed a max contract or contract that exceeds their output.

See now. You can't do that. You can't work on that logical fallacy.

i) Harden wouldn't be the player he is now, if he stayed in OKC (he was ALWAYS going to leave, staying wasn't an option, so it's pointless to talk about him in the sense of being the best 2-guard)
ii) Kevin Martin, Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Dion Waiters are more than enough wing scoring to replace Harden's production
iii) OKC's problem isn't wing scoring; their problems lie in the front court and overall coaching - keeping Harden wouldn't change that

The Thunder were still a great team without Harden because their starting lineup had arguably the best overall talent in the league so I'm not surprised they had the regular season record they did. If Russy goes down and Harden is still on the team, Harden could carry the load much better than Martin did. And yea, they're missing frontcourt depth, but that 6th man position is a problem too.

 

[LezJepzin]

As long as they're not back in Seattle when the 30 for 30 comes out

 

[FTBS]

Everybody would have been on the durant bandwagon, remember lebron still hadnt won a ring at the time

That was my point. The Heat probably get broken up and Harden stays and KD is the clutch killer that everybody cast him as leading up to the series and through game 1.

 

[Bledswole]

It's evident their title window has closed Russy is most likely a Laker and KD will seriously consider the Wizards or a big market team. Will they be remembered for having the GOAT consecutive draft picks (KD, Russy, Green, Harden, Ibaka, Jackson, Stevens)? Will we look back at the relocation to a much smaller market OKC as to why they couldn't keep there draft picks? Will we blame Brooks for his lack of coaching? Will it be the Injuries we talk about the most?

He had a top 2 SF in the league,a top 3 PG(at that time) and a top 3 SG(at that time) all on the same team and didn't get a ship,yes Im going to always blame brooks and his horrible substitution patterns as the reason why OKC never won anything.