I believe this is just one of many universes.

Chrishaune

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everything is in a constant state of decay.
your god can't stop entropy.


God is life. Yes He can stop decay. He can tear down and rebuild the universe. He can/does make something out of "nothing", because all life comes from Him. That's what everybody is looking for when they are trying to figure out the universe. God, the beginning and end of all things.
 

Orbital-Fetus

cross that bridge
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God is life. Yes He can stop decay. He can tear down and rebuild the universe. He can/does make something out of "nothing", because all life comes from Him. That's what everybody is looking for when they are trying to figure out the universe. God, the beginning of all things.

:russell:
 

Morethan1

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161714.JPG





:sas2:


Found the audio book on YouTube.

I'll check it out
 

Koichos

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@Koichos what is your take on "multiverses"
No comment.

and what the "heaven" means in your space
May I draw to your attention the fact that the words שָׁמַיִם shomayim ('heaven') and הַשָּׁמַיִם ha-shomayim ('the heaven') are used more or less interchangeably for the 'place' where Hashem and His angels exist, and what is more that both forms (with or without the definite article ה־) can also be used in an alternative sense, the 'sky' (as, for example, B'reshιth 1:8 וַיִּקְרָא אֱלֹקִים לָרָקִיעַ שָׁמָיִם 'then ʾAlohim named the expanse 'sky' [that is to say, 'shomayim']...' and again in B'reshιth 15:5 וַיֹאמֶר הַבֶּט־נָא הַשָּׁמַיְמָה 'and [He] said: Please, look onto 'the sky'...').

However, since שָׁמָיִם shomayim (as in the Creator's 'domain') is not and cannot be a created 'place', we are therefore compelled to admit that the word שָׁמָיִם shomayim throughout the first Creation chapter means 'the sky'; the Torah itself testifies to this in B'reshιth 1:8. In a wider sense, though, the word שָׁמַיִם shomayim can be taken to mean the entire physical universe, as when we talk about what we might see 'in the heavens', so that the expression אֵת הַשָּׁמַיִם 'the heaven' includes the earth (given that the earth is part of the physical universe).

What then does the term וְאֵת הָאָרֶץ ('and the land', B'reshιth 1:1) denote? It signifies אֶרֶץ יִשְׂרָאֵל, as Hashem promised ʾAvrohom ʾOvinu:

:שָׂא נָא עֵינֶיךָ וּרְאֵה מִן־הַמָּקוֹם אֲשֶׁר־אַתָּה שָׁם צָפֹנָה וָנֶגְבָּה וָקֵדְמָה וָיָמָּה: כִּי אֶת־כָּל־הָאָרֶץ אֲשֶׁר־אַתָּה רֹאֶה לְךָ אֶתְּנֶנָּה וּלְזַרְעֲךָ עַד־עוֹלָם...
...Raise your eyes and look out toward the north, the south, the east and the west from the place where you are right now, because I am going to give all the land you can see to you and to your descendants, in perpetuity. (B'reshıth 13:14-15)

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Now, 'heaven' as regards 'the afterlife', in Hebrew we have a term עוֹלָם הַבָּא which translates as 'world to come'. Without getting too into the mystical side of things, this is a vague and ill-defined concept in Jewish culture that can be equated both with 'the afterlife' and also with 'the messianic age'; the reason why it is so imprecise is because it really is not that important to us; we are far, far more concerned with the here and now, and we are willing to wait and see—for Hashem to let us know when the time comes. My copy of T'na"ch says:
הַשָּׁמַיִם שָׁמַיִם לַה׳
וְהָאָרֶץ נָתַן לִבְנֵי־אָדָם
The heaven is Hashem's heaven—
He gave the earth to mankind
[lit., 'to ʾAdam's progeny']. (Tahillim 115:16)
Put another way, 'Heaven belongs to Hashem and He gave mankind the earth'.

Further, there are three passages at least that hint at what happens after death:

(i) For starters, there is the incident recorded in chapter 28 of Sh'muʾel's first book, which describes how King Shoʾul went to consult an ʾeshath baʿalath ʾov ('woman-medium', Sh'muʾel ʾAlaf 28:7) who lived at a place called ʿEin Dor ('Dor Spring'), which proves that a person's n'shomoh ('soul') lives on after the body dies, but suggests very strongly that it does not 'go to heaven'—because both Shoʾul and the 'woman-medium' refer to bringing the dead person (i.e., Sh'muʾel) 'up' rather than 'down', and 'Heaven' is invariably referred to in the T'na"ch as being 'above' (see, for example, Sh'moth 20:4; D'vorim 4:39, 5:8; Y'hoshuʿa 2:11; M'lochim ʾAlaf 8:23; Y'shaʿyohu 45:8; and Yir'm'yohu 4:28).

(ii) Then there is Qohalath 12:7, which says

וְיָשֹׁב הֶעָפָר עַל הָאָרֶץ כְּשֶׁהָיָה
וְהָרוּחַ תָּשׁוּב אֶל הָאֱלֹקִים אֲשֶׁר נְתָנָהּ׃

The dust [i.e., the body] returns to the ground as it was [before],
and the ru'ah
['spirit'] returns to [the] ʾAlohim, who supplied it.
—there is no mention of the ultimate fate of the n'shomoh ('soul'), however it is generally held that the n'shomoh is what 'sleeps in the dusty ground' in Doniyyeʾl 12:2.

(iii) And finally there is Doniyyeʾl 12:2, which says

וְרַבִּים מִיְּשֵׁנֵי אַדְמַת־עָפָר יָקִיצוּ
אֵלֶּה לְחַיֵּי עוֹלָם
:וְאֵלֶּה לַחֲרָפוֹת לְדִרְאוֹן עוֹלָם
Many of those who are asleep in the ground of dust will wake up:
'these'
[i.e., the ones who will wake up] for everlasting life,
and 'those'
[i.e., the ones who will not wake up] for disgrace, for universal loathing.
The Hebrew alternatives ...אֵלֶּה... וְאֵלֶּה denote 'these... and those...': the dead who wake up will enjoy 'everlasting life' whereas those who do not wake up will suffer 'disgrace' and 'universal loathing'. (The messianic תְּחִיַּת הַמֵּתִים t'hiyyath ha-methim 'resurrection of the dead' is derived from Doniyyeʾl 12:2 and Y'shaʿyohu 26:19, although they do not use that term. Like Doniyyeʾl, Y'shaʿyohu uses the verb לְהָקִיץ l'hoqiss 'to wake up', but he begins the verse with יִחְיוּ yih'yu 'they will live', which has the same root as תְּחִיָּה t'hiyyoh 'resurrection': חיה.)

In the most simplistic terms, without delving into Hebrew esoteric tradition, ru'ah, n'shomoh and nafash can be explained as follows:
(i) ru'ah is a 'spirit', representing the electric battery or 'life-force' that animates the ğuf 'body' and brings it to life;

(ii) n'shomoh is a 'soul', corresponding to one's 'self' or consciousness, the 'intellectual-force' of a person (note that animals do not have n'shomoth—rather, an animal IS a nafash and it HAS a ru'ah, see B'reshıth 6:17 and 7:15); and

(iii) nafash, confusingly, is also translated as a 'soul', but in a different sense, because this usage is rather like how we might refer to someone in contemporary English as 'that poor soul' or 'that lucky soul', i.e., a person (compare Wayyiq'roʾ 4:27, 5:17 and B'midhbor 15:27, and note that even an animal can be referred to as a nafash, i.e., a creature, see B'reshıth 1:20, 1:21, 1:24 and 1:30—all of which are before its first use in connection with a human being, which does not occur until B'reshıth 2:7).

וַיִּיצֶר ה׳ אֱלֹקִים אֶת־הָאָדָם עָפָר מִן־הָאֲדָמָה
וַיִּפַּח בְּאַפָּיו נִשְׁמַת חַיִּים
:וַיְהִי הָאָדָם לְנֶפֶשׁ חַיָּה
Then Hashem-ʾAlohim fabricated the ʾadam from the ground's dust
and He blew a
[or 'the'] n'shomoh ['soul'] of life into his nose [literally 'noses', i.e., the nostrils]
with the result that the ʾadam turned into a living nafash
['person' or 'being']. (B'reshıth 2:7)
Note that the nafash alone is what 'sins', not the n'shomoh or the ru'ah (see Wayyiq'roʾ 4:2, 4:27, 5:17 and B'midhbor 15:27, to mention just a few instances); thus, it is our naf'shoth (plural of nafash) which are being 'atoned for' and not our n'shomoth (plural of n'shomoh).
 
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Koichos

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my point still stands :hubie:

"Cursed be Canaan, a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren"

meditate on the word but judge it at your peril.
No, you are right—everyone knows where the T'na"ch documents the creation of Heaven and Earth ('At the start of ʾAlohim's creating of Heaven and Earth...'), but I wish just one person would show me a single passage where it says anything about a 'hell' being created.

The word שְׁאוֹל shʾol can be found 66 times in the T'na"ch, in all of the following verses:

B'reshιth 37:35, 42:38, 44:29, 44:31
B'midhbor 16:30, 16:33
D'vorim 32:22
Sh'muʾelʾAlaf 2:6, Béth 22:6
M'lochimʾAlaf 2:6, 2:9
Y'shaʿyohu 5:14, 7:11, 14:9, 14:11, 14:15, 28:15, 28:18, 38:10, 38:18, 57:9
Y'hazqeʿl 31:15, 31:16, 31:17, 32:21, 32:27
Taré ʿAsarHosheʿa 13:14 (twice), ʿAmos 9:2, Yonoh 2:3, Havaqquq 2:5
Tahillim 6:6, 9:18, 16:10, 18:6, 30:4, 31:18, 49:15 (twice), 49:16, 55:16, 86:13, 88:4, 89:49, 116:3, 139:8, 141:7
Mish'lé 1:12, 5:5, 7:27, 9:18, 15:11, 15:24, 23:14, 27:20, 30:16
ʾIyyov 7:9, 11:8, 14:13, 17:13, 17:16, 21:13, 24:19, 26:6
Shir ha-Shirim 8:6
Qohalath 9:10
All of the above (with the exception of the four instances in B'reshιth, the two in B'midhbor and the two in M'lochim) occur in passages written in poetic language. Now, שְׁאוֹל shʾol does not refer to a specific place, but rather speaks allegorically to the actual state of being dead; the Hebrew expression לָרֶדֶת שְׁאֹלָה 'to descend into shʾol' is a euphemism for 'to die' and nothing more (comparable to the English expression 'to go the grave'). שְׁאוֹל shʾol is just a poetic or allegoric way of referring to 'the grave', although is never used to refer to an actual grave (קֶבֶר); it is only ever used in metaphorical phrases such as אֵרֵד אֶל־בְּנִי אָבֵל שְׁאֹלָה 'I [Yaʿaqov] will go [down] to the grave still in mourning over my son' (B'reshιth 37:35), in which 'I will go down to the grave' is just a euphemistic equivalent of 'to die', 'pass away'.

The Hebrew expression clearly has no connection with the pagan concept of 'hell' as a place of torment, because in B'reshιth 37:35, and again in 42:38, the patriarch Yaʿaqov refers to himself 'going down into shʾol', the latter of these being repeated by his son Y'hudhoh in B'reshιth 44:29,31. Is it credible that Yaʿaqov ʾOvinu would have spoken of himself going to 'hell', and even more so that his son would have referred to his father in those same terms? It therefore ought to be trivially obvious that no such 'place' can possibly be mentioned in the T'na"ch. On a slightly different tack, the word שְׁאוֹל shʾol appears to be related to the noun שְׁאֵלָה shʾeloh (lit., 'a question', derived from the verb-stem שׁאל, 'ask'), possibly signifying that death (or more specifically what happens after it) is the biggest 'question' of all!


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In post-Biblical times, however, Jewish parents began to use it as a kind of boogieman to scare their children. In my great-grandfather's youth (i.e., during the early 1900s, Turkish Palestine), his mother would not allow them (himself or any of his siblings) to go anywhere near עֵמֶק הַחוּלֶה (the Hulah Valley; for those not intimately familiar with the geography of the land, it is located in the extreme northeast of the country close to the pre-1967 border with Syria, north of Yam Kinnarath); going down there was referred to as יְרִידַת שְׁאֹלָה (slang: 'going down into hell'). In those days, the Hulah Valley was still an undrained swamp infested with yatushim (i.e., malaria mosquitoes).
 
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