i don't remember kobe doing much during his first three titles
- Thread starter the cool
- Start date
This takes me back about a decade or so. The old school Kobe debates were so much fun and always entertaining. I know nikkas have dug in and aren't really interested in the truth but allow me to supply it anyway.Kobe was great during the 3peat. That's undeniable. He was also fortunate during the 3peat. That's undeniable as well. Did Shaq carry him? No. Were they equals? No. There were other guys doing the same shyt Kobe was doing and losing in the first round every year. You can't deny the benefit of having Shaq especially in a league where talent was spread so thin. Kobe doesn't perform at the same level in the playoffs without Shaq on his team and if you question that just check out the 06 and 07 playoffs. Not talking about Ws and Ls either I am talking about his individual performance. Having to carry everything all game long all season long took it's toll on him in both years (as it has with pretty much every player in that boat). All that said you can't take anything away from what Kobe for his team during the 3peat. Maybe people would have more perspective and less room to troll if people didn't resort to lazy analysis by going on and on about ring totals and focused on what Kobe has actually done himself as an individual in the playoffs which has been great in its own right.
AVXL
Laughing at you n*ggaz like “ha ha ha”
holidayinn21
:SmugMoneyMike:
kobe during 00-02: 25/5/5
kobe with scrubs: 30/6/5
i see no drop-off at all
He only scored 30 once against PHX in 06 after avg. 35 on the season and disappeared in the 2nd half of game 7. PHX is the exact type of team that Kobe would have destroyed during the 3peat and he really only played like that for 1.5 games in that 7 game series.
He consistently faded in the 4th in the next series due to all the heavy lifting he had to do versus coming on in the 4th like he did during the 3peat. He was able to pace himself more and save something to close the deal during the 3peat.
Jesus Shuttlesworth
I Got Game
Kobe was great during the 3peat. That's undeniable. He was also fortunate during the 3peat. That's undeniable as well. Did Shaq carry him? No. Were they equals? No. There were other guys doing the same shyt Kobe was doing and losing in the first round every year. You can't deny the benefit of having Shaq especially in a league where talent was spread so thin. Kobe doesn't perform at the same level in the playoffs without Shaq on his team and if you question that just check out the 06 and 07 playoffs. Not talking about Ws and Ls either I am talking about his individual performance. Having to carry everything all game long all season long took it's toll on him in both years (as it has with pretty much every player in that boat). All that said you can't take anything away from what Kobe for his team during the 3peat. Maybe people would have more perspective and less room to troll if people didn't resort to lazy analysis by going on and on about ring totals and focused on what Kobe has actually done himself as an individual in the playoffs which has been great in its own right.
superunknown23
Superstar
ItzDaKiing
Freedom
Shaq led the team, but without Kobe the Lakers don't win any titles.
Shaq + Iverson = no title
Shaq + T-mac = no title
Shaq + vince = no title
Nobody in the league could've done what Kobe did those 3 years.
Shaq + Iverson = no title
Shaq + T-mac = no title
Shaq + vince = no title
Nobody in the league could've done what Kobe did those 3 years.
Totally agree about AI. Unless Kobe is in SA with Tim what team during that period beat Shaq/T-Mac or Shaq/Vince or even Shaq/Raymond or Shaq/Pierce? What was Kobe doing individually back then that his other elite perimeter peers weren't? Was it really that superior? Once again not denying how great Kobe was however it's not like he was head and shoulders above cats. He woulda put up numbers and lost in their spot and they would put up numbers and won in his. He has proven himself to be better than all those guys but that doesn't mean those other guys couldn't have flourished in his spot.
T-K-G
Veteran
basically, nikkas knew whoever won the west was gettin the rings.....
but OP still a faq for this feeble attempt at a plat thread :pacspit
Jesus Shuttlesworth
I Got Game
It's unfortunate that you have to tread so carefully in threads like this because Kobe stans are so sensitive.
But the fact is Kobe benefited greatly from his circumstances. He played with Shaq!
Great player, no doubt about it. No one is denying that, Kobe stans. But keep it in perspective.
When Shaq left, Kobe averaged 35 ppg but couldn't get out the first round. Again, GREAT player, but championships are a function of TEAM.
Shaq + Penny = Finals trip, could/would have been more
Shaq + Kobe = 3-peat, 1 additional Finals trip
Shaq + Wade = Championship
All 3 of those perimeter guys were/are great players. But nobody can win a title without help.
Now the question is: Would Kobe be considered as great had he not played with Shaq? He'd have the numbers but he wouldn't have the rings. So how would people view him?
Another thing that should be considered, and again, this isn't dissing Kobe at all, this is simply explaining how the world works, Kobe's early career success spawned confidence and bred more success. But without Shaq, he wouldn't have had that success. He wouldn't have that championship pedigree.
Kobe was in a great position coming into the league. Now he still worked his butt off to take advantage of that position so I'm not trying to take anything away from him at all. He put in the work, this can't be denied.
But please don't forget the importance of Shaq in Kobe's career. Much like the importance of Pippen in Jordan's career and Wade in Bron's career. Without help, none of those guys would be a champion.
And you can't just plug in AI or Vince because they didn't develop under the same circumstances as Kobe. We don't know what they would have done with a force like Shaq commanding double teams on the inside like that.
Real talk.
OK, I think it's pretty much unanimous that Shaq/AI don't win ish, because of AI's style of play.
Vince was "give him an elbow and he's pretty much a jumpshooter rest of game. Tmac - Houston got out of the first round with him sidelined. That's hilarious. Pierce wasn't as good as them, and who is the leader? Remember Cyber-Toine AKA Employee #8 was the leader of the successful teams. Ray - maybe, but they would need some else to stop up a notch.
mvp_status
Superstar
Only perimeter player back then that could have replicated what Kobe did was Tracy McGrady
AI in the triangle?
AI in the triangle?
I agree with the overall sentiment of TEAMS winning championships and how no one does it on their own but I have always taken issue with people comparing Shaq to Pippen or even Wade or any other ancillary star. If you wanna compare Pau to Pippen that is one thing but you can't really compare Shaq to anyone but Dream, Kareem, Wilt, or Timothy. He was an absolute monster and teams were
when it came to trying to contain him when he was at his peak. As great as Kobe it's silly to try to equate even him to Shaq.Kobe would have been viewed as a selfish gunner who doesn't make teammates better and can't get a team over the hump without those titles early in his career. He's in the same boat that Brady and Jeter are in. Guys who won early and thusly were crowned winners with all these great "intangibles" that separated them from their peers who were playing at a similar and some instances higher level with less help. They have all proven themselves to be great in their own right but it would certainly be interesting to see how differently they would be viewed without the early titles and no change in their individual performance.