I had no idea that Max Martin was fukking with the Weeknd. I should've known

[scuba]

there is a world of difference between hip hop as a genre and pop as a genre... I mean strictly musically 'technically' speaking not 'preference' wise there is a world between them.

to say otherwise undermines the points that you are making very substantially, because it highlights either a willful disregard for facts or shocking ignorance.

Max Martin is pretty good as far as someone who makes pop hits he has some of my favorite pop joints in recent history...
Cant Feel My Face, Dark Horse, One More Night...

But thats from a pop perspective, overall from a music perspective there are dozens of producers i prefer over him

pop is by definition a mixed bag of lowest common denominator

 

[SirBiatch]

Your "lowest common denominator" argument is the dumbest, most pretentious thing I've heard to bash music (especially for having ASAP Rocky in your avi). First of all you aren't saying shyt about the music, you're just insecure because you don't want to be caught dead listening to the same shyt as a soccer mom. It is pathetic that you are what..30 years old? You're making arguments a 15 year old would make. "My taste is better than yours"

You can't hate pop. Pop takes from almost every genre. That's why there's R&B songs that are pop, there's hip hop songs that are pop, there's country songs that are pop, etc. You're sitting here defending hip hop, when hip hop has been arguably the biggest "sellout" genre since the mid 90s. Hip hop and pop are practically interchangeable these days.

Here's your argument: "SirBiatch, you're stupid. Why? Because you're pretentious. You like ASAP Rocky. You hate soccer moms. You're old. Here's a MJ smiley."

Not surprised at your name-calling weak ass call-a-smiley-for-help struggle argument. Most of you are ignorant and arrogant in your ignorance.

Go through life pretending like there isn't a lowest-common-demoninator/generic version for every single product you can think of. It doesn't make the generic version 'evil'. It just means you should acknowledge it for what it is.

 

[Love Sosa]

there is a world of difference between hip hop as a genre and pop as a genre... I mean strictly musically 'technically' speaking not 'preference' wise there is a world between them.

to say otherwise undermines the points that you are making very substantially, because it highlights either a willful disregard for facts or shocking ignorance.

Max Martin is pretty good as far as someone who makes pop hits he has some of my favorite pop joints in recent history...
Cant Feel My Face, Dark Horse, One More Night...

But thats from a pop perspective, overall from a music perspective there are dozens of producers i prefer over him

pop is by definition a mixed bag of lowest common denominator

It depends. Take a song like Dark Horse. It's a hip hop song and a pop song. There's plenty of em out there like that. I'm arguing his point about appealing to the "lowest common denominator".

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

dude's pen game

 

[SirBiatch]

It depends. Take a song like Dark Horse. It's a hip hop song and a pop song. There's plenty of em out there like that. I'm arguing his point about appealing to the "lowest common denominator".

Dark Horse is a pop song.

This is what you simps do not understand: Pop music ABSORBS elements from other genres to appeal to the lowest common denominator. You're not suddenly hip hop by adding a hip hop element. Hip hop is way bigger than its musical elements; it's a philosophy. It's a vibe.

At some point you simp nikkas will either step your game up and do your homework or leave hip hop after the poser appeal wears off.

 

[Love Sosa]

Here's your argument: "SirBiatch, you're stupid. Why? Because you're pretentious. You like ASAP Rocky. You hate soccer moms. You're old. Here's a MJ smiley."

Not surprised at your name-calling weak ass call-a-smiley-for-help struggle argument. Most of you are ignorant and arrogant in your ignorance.

Go through life pretending like there isn't a lowest-common-demoninator/generic version for every single product you can think of. It doesn't make the generic version 'evil'. It just means you should acknowledge it for what it is.

Not surprised that you completely avoid debating the points I made.

Pop is not "lowest-common-denominator" music. Yes, there is lowest-common-denominator pop music just like there is lowest-common-denominator hip hop music.

 

[Love Sosa]

Dark Horse is a pop song.

This is what you simps do not understand: Pop music ABSORBS elements from other genres to appeal to the lowest common denominator. You're not suddenly hip hop by adding a hip hop element. Hip hop is way bigger than its musical elements; it's a philosophy. It's a vibe.

At some point you simp nikkas will either step your game up and do your homework or leave hip hop after the poser appeal wears off.

Dark horse is also a hip hop song, whether you want to admit it or not. Did it get play on hip hop stations? Yes. Did it get play in hip hop clubs? Yes. Were we discussing it on hip hop forums? Yes. You don't get to pick and choose what is hip hop and what isn't to support your argument.

"Just because it has a hip hop beat and there's a guy rapping on it doesn't make it a hip hop song"

 

[JustCKing]

It depends. Take a song like Dark Horse. It's a hip hop song and a pop song. There's plenty of em out there like that. I'm arguing his point about appealing to the "lowest common denominator".

He kind of has a point though. A lot of music that's considered Pop is dumbed down because it has to fit a specific format to have mass appeal. There's some Pop music that challenges the status quo, but for the most part, it's blatantly generic music for mass consumption.

 

[SirBiatch]

Not surprised that you completely avoid debating the points I made.

Pop is not "lowest-common-denominator" music. Yes, there is lowest-common-denominator pop music just like there is lowest-common-denominator hip hop music.

dude, you had no talking points. stop it. You came in talking about asap rocky, soccer moms and my age. Then you're talking about hip hop falling off in the mid 90s... You were literally rambling. Firing shots in the dark, hoping something would stick. You never had a coherent point. fukk outta here.

Did it get play on hip hop stations? Yes.

That makes it undeniably a hip hop record?

Did it get play in hip hop clubs? Yes.

That makes it undeniably a hip hop record?

Were we discussing it on hip hop forums? Yes.

That makes it undeniably a hip hop record?

Nevermind that we could argue that hip hop doesn't exist on mainstream radio anymore. Nevermind that in many cities, there are no exclusively hip hop clubs anymore but really just clubs that play hip hop. Nevermind that you're on a hip hop forum discussing Max fukking Martin.

You're easily fooled. That's fine. We're not you.

 

[Quinton Barnes]

There's a huge difference between an opinion and an INFORMED opinion. Informed opinions are closer to fact that random ass opinion. They're not FACT, but they're closer to fact.

You're not informed about hip hop. I can tell by the shyt you're typing.

And the 'you is elitist' angle is a crutch for people who are uninformed and want to stay that way.

Find me a pop record that has the same 'musical content' (whatever the fukk that means - you haven't even attempted to explain this) as NY State of Mind.

Easily.

'Musical content' = chord progressions, melodic development, compositional skill. We've been over this.

I'll refer you to 'A Day in the Life' by The Beatles. Or even something like 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. 'Billie Jean', which is on the simpler side of things, is more complex than NY State of Mind. This can actually be argued because it has merit and is based in music theory. Your opinions aren't. Mind you, NY State of Mind is a great song. But it's not superior to the ones I mentioned. And vice versa.

Your opinion is not informed. It is random. You have demonstrated no knowledge of how music works or how opinions work. You can have an informed opinion as much as you want - at the end of the day you can still be paired with someone equally as informed and still get into arguments. However, due to your own arrogance and haughtiness you are unable to see past yourself.

You still have yet to provide any evidence OR show how your opinion is informed.

'I can tell by the shyt you're typing' is an illusory correlation. Someone disagreeing with you doesn't mean they're not informed about hip-hop.

 

[SirBiatch]

Easily.

'Musical content' = chord progressions, melodic development, compositional skill. We've been over this.

I'll refer you to 'A Day in the Life' by The Beatles. Or even something like 'Bohemian Rhapsody'. 'Billie Jean', which is on the simpler side of things, is more complex than NY State of Mind. This can actually be argued because it has merit and is based in music theory. Your opinions aren't. Mind you, NY State of Mind is a great song. But it's not superior to the ones I mentioned. And vice versa.

Your opinion is not informed. It is random. You have demonstrated no knowledge of how music works or how opinions work. You can have an informed opinion as much as you want - at the end of the day you can still be paired with someone equally as informed and still get into arguments. However, due to your own arrogance and haughtiness you are unable to see past yourself.

You still have yet to provide any evidence OR show how your opinion is informed.

'I can tell by the shyt you're typing' is an illusory correlation. Someone disagreeing with you doesn't mean they're not informed about hip-hop.

I ask you to find me a pop song with the same musical content as NY State of Mind and you present "A Day In The Life?"

For fukk's sake... I'm done.

Your vague-ass definition for "musical content" means whatever the fukk you want it to mean. Hip hop is a DEEP ass culture with core philosophies that come from a desperate place. Those things inform every note in its music. You're avoiding the core things that make hip hop extraordinarily unique and applying your one-size-fits-all Rolling Stone cac-robot analysis to hip hop. Of course you think it's like pop. All you know is pop.

Again, why the fukk are you on a hip hop forum if you really think A Day In The Life or Bohemian Rhapsody is superior to NY State of Mind? You're a rock-n-roll pop fan. Go where they're at.

You know what I think about Cacles and Queen? fukkEM. I'd rather listen to NY State of Mind than anything in their catalogue.

 

[Mac Casper]

Talking to sense to dude and dude's like


Nah

 

[Quinton Barnes]

I ask you to find me a pop song with the same musical content as NY State of Mind and you present "A Day In The Life?"

For fukk's sake... I'm done.

Your vague-ass definition for "musical content" means whatever the fukk you want it to mean. Hip hop is a DEEP ass culture with core philosophies that come from a desperate place. Those things inform every note in its music. You're avoiding the core things that make hip hop extraordinarily unique and applying your one-size-fits-all Rolling Stone cac-robot analysis to hip hop. Of course you think it's like pop. All you know is pop.

Again, why the fukk are you on a hip hop forum if you really think A Day In The Life or Bohemian Rhapsody is superior to NY State of Mind? You're a rock-n-roll pop fan. Go where they're at.

You know what I think about Cacles and Queen? fukkEM. I'd rather listen to NY State of Mind than anything in their catalogue.

You're reading comprehension skills are terrible. I already stated that I don't think these songs are superior at all. You know nothing about how music theory works at all nor how music works. And you STILL have yet to provide any evidence.

Hip-hop is unique, sure. So is rock. Disco. Funk. Jazz. Classical. Pull your head out of your ass. Music from everywhere is great and has it's own cultural value and meaning.

All I know is pop? While shyt. At least I know pop instead of barely having a grasp on ANY musical genre, let alone hip-hop.

You spew drivel. You have no idea what you're talking about and can't make coherent conversation. It's sad. You've deluded yourself into thinking that you're superior to everyone around you and that there's no possible alternative. Seriously. Not one valid point in this entire back and forth.

My original point is that there is no superior genre and that if there is you have to measure it using the most objective method available, which would be analyzing individual songs using music theory. You've done nothing but dance in circles.

 

[SirBiatch]

You're reading comprehension skills are terrible. I already stated that I don't think these songs are superior at all. You know nothing about how music theory works at all nor how music works. And you STILL have yet to provide any evidence.

Hip-hop is unique, sure. So is rock. Disco. Funk. Jazz. Classical. Pull your head out of your ass. Music from everywhere is great and has it's own cultural value and meaning.

All I know is pop? While shyt. At least I know pop instead of barely having a grasp on ANY musical genre, let alone hip-hop.

You spew drivel. You have no idea what you're talking about and can't make coherent conversation. It's sad. You've deluded yourself into thinking that you're superior to everyone around you and that there's no possible alternative. Seriously. Not one valid point in this entire back and forth.

My original point is that there is no superior genre and that if there is you have to measure it using the most objective method available, which would be analyzing individual songs using music theory. You've done nothing but dance in circles.

You're a cac. Like I said, you're applying your Rolling Stone musical-theory bullshyt to a genre you don't know shyt about.

Joke is, we Black people invent all the musical theory you end up dikkriding. When James Brown came out with the "on the one", that shyt flew in the face of musical theory. Cacs were like: 'this is discordant! There is no sense of melody'

Then James Brown goes on to influence everyone in the fukking world, and inspire hip hop from the same rebellious nutsack

Nice talking homie. I'll leave on the note that certain genres are superior at certain things over others. The only thing pop is superior at is being "come on, come all." Sometimes you'll get blinding genius like Michael Jackson. Most times, you'll get blinding basura like Miley. or Katy Perry. Who have both worked with your boy/dikkridee-du-jour: Max Martin.

But make sure to keep belittling hip hop on a hip hop forum. That'll work wonders.

Peace.

 

[Mac Casper]

@SirBiatch

When he's talking about parallels between the repetitive content in both genres. . he's talking about radio hits, the subject matter on sings never really strays that far to the point of revolutionary, everything's always in the box - what's the last revolutionary song your hear on the radio?. To bring up "NY State of Mind" is to miss the point entirely.

For example -



What's this song about? Ignore the title, sure things will have a different theme

Being in the club?

Having a good time?

Really straying far from commercial hip-hop huh? (did I hear a Lebron name drop in there?)

What's the difference between "In Da Club" and "Lean Back"

Not everything is the same as "In Da Club" or "Lean Back" but a lot is - there's also "Not Afraid" or "I Need a Doctor". How does that differ from "Empire State of Mind"?



And I'm willing to bet Max Martin prolly has some Dr. Dre shyt going on as well, in the sense that shyt we talk about Dre on here is probably going on with Max Martin to. Prolly has some production "understudies" coming to him with ideas all the time like prolly coming to him like


"Check out my new song Max, what do you think "Hit Me Again" -

Max - "it's good . . but try this . . "Hit Me One More Time" - there you go, now that's how you write a hit

so I'm by no means some fanboy of his - but just keeping broad-perspective Max Martin has damn near written more #1 hits than The Beatles . . you're talking about the record books here