I see Duncan is still 5hiting on Garnett

[Dusty Bake Activate]

First of all, that ain't 19 players and the list is a complete joke anyway.

T-Mac, Kidd, Wade, Barkley and Malone ahead of KG?

The only ones in the league history that are clearly ahead of Garnett is the following, in no order;

Jordan
Russell
Chamberlain
Shaq
Bird
Kareem
Magic
Olajuwon

Then you have to rate two guys like Duncan and Kobe ahead of him based on their accolades, although peak Garnett edges Kobe and his and Duncans peaks are a wash basically, although I prefer Garnetts overall impact but it's meh. Erving is kinda iffy, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people ranked him higher.

With that said, Garnett is around ~ 11-12.. possibly 13 at worst all-time although I feel Oscar Robertsons impact is kinda overrated.

 

[SwagKingKong]

at his peak kobe was/is the lakers...he could control the flow of the game from getting his own shot to possibly setting someone else up (tho this doesnt happen often)

kj had to be set up...to shoot the same fake-to-middle back to the baseline fade-a-way...not saying that he isnt great...but better than kobe....nah...

and that season youre talking about...isnt that the year they lost to the lakers?

Terrible argument considering you're using it against Garnett. He didnt' need to be set up in his prime, he ALWAYS intitiated Wolves offense at the top of the key. Hell, during his peak he was the one bringing up the ball at times considering Wolves PG situation aside from Cassell was shyt.

Yes, the season I'm talking about is the one they lost to Lakers....Without Cassell on the floor, in 6 games. Wolves has a great shot of beating Lakers with Cassell healthy. It's pretty remarkable that Garnett could take Sprewell, Sczcerbiak, Madsen, Ervin Johnson, Gary Trent, Hoiberg and Hassell to 6 games vs. Shaq, Kobe, Malone, Payton, Fox etc.

Listen, I ain't tripping if people rate Kobe higher on the all-time ranking. He got more accolades and people generally overrate offensive players. But in no way did Kobe peak higher than KG.

 

[SwagKingKong]

Kobe was better. Both elite 2 way players but Kobe just was a MUCH better offensive Player and Playoff performer. Kobe is actually more efficient then KG(a 7 footer) in the playoffs.

KG has 9 or 10 30 point playoff games(No 40 point games).Think about that for a second

Kobe wasn't an elite two way player, well maybe for 1 or two seasons. But the truth is that Kobe hasn't been a great defensive player since ~2003 while Garnett has been elite for 15 years on both ends of the floor.

I have no clue as to why you would base your argument as to how many 30 or 40 playoff games a player has especially considering one of them is is a top 3-5 defensive player of all-time..

It would be like me saying, Kobe Bryant only has two games with 15 or more rebounds in his playoff career, and zero 20 rebound games while Garnett has six games with 20 or more rebounds and 19 with 15 rebounds or more and be all about it.

 

[SwagKingKong]

@ Garnett being "11-13"



Wilt
Shaq
Robinson
Dream
West
Magic
Zeke
Russell
Jordan
Bean
LeBron
Duncan
Dirk (Yes DIRK)
Kareem
Bird
Dr. J
Moses


Damn near all of these guys won finals MVP, and multiple chips, KG is the ultimate complimentary player and his peak was nowhere near Duncan or Kobes. You can even make a case for Wade bing better based on the run he went on to win his first title.

And if we get into accolades, then someone like Bob Pettit is more accomplished than him as well.

What do you base this on? Statistically speaking, there's literally nothing you could use to set them apart. And that's just using basic boxscore numbers.

Look at their adjusted plus and minus rankning;

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2003.html

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2004.html

Virtually the same over those two years.

 

[GreatestLaker]

What the fukk does MVP voting have to do with who the best player is? That is a shytty argument. Kobe and Shaq were always splitting each other's votes.

KG and Kobe were the same tier, but your MVP argument is horrendous. The only year KG was clearly better than Kobe was 04, while Kobe was adjusting to have all those old heads on his squad.

05 Kobe got hurt.

01-03 it was a toss up, but KG had more responsibility on his team. But the idea that KG was considered better than Kobe definitively from 99-05/06 is nonsense.

KG was clearly better in 2000. You can make an argument for Kobe in 04, but not in 2000.

Top 50 players: Lean and hungry Shaq back to No. 1 - NBA - CBSSports.com News, Scores, Stats, Fantasy Advice

The top 4 rankings from 01 to 04 usually looked like that list.

Lebron wasn't clearly the best player in 09, but people viewed him as the best. A better example would be Kobe and McGrady in 2003. They were seen as equals with Kobe having the edge. That's how it was between Kobe and KG in the early 2000's. KG was seen as the better player, but it wasn't definitive.

 

[Street Knowledge]

Kobe was not better in 2000.

01,02 and 03 are toss ups. KG was better in 04 and 05 and Kobe was better from 06 to now.

How was KG better in 00'? If anything its a tossup. Playoffs isn't wasnt even close tho

KG 18/10 on 38% against the Blazers

KG's efficiency has always been trash in the playoffs for a big man

 

[SwagKingKong]

What the fukk does MVP voting have to do with who the best player is? That is a shytty argument. Kobe and Shaq were always splitting each other's votes.

KG and Kobe were the same tier, but your MVP argument is horrendous. The only year KG was clearly better than Kobe was 04, while Kobe was adjusting to have all those old heads on his squad.

05 Kobe got hurt.

01-03 it was a toss up, but KG had more responsibility on his team. But the idea that KG was considered better than Kobe definitively from 99-05/06 is nonsense.

at Shaq and Kobe splitting votes.

fukk outta here, Shaq had Kobe playing his Robin nikka

It's not nonsense. I would actually say that Garnett is the better player all the way up to 2006, and then was the better player in 08 too.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

I'll dare you to go through the numbers and check out the adjusted plus and minus data we have. You'd be surprised at the kinda impact Garnett has had over the years, and sadly your bubble of Bryant will burst too.

Look, I ain't saying he's a bad player. He's a great player. But peak wise he's not on the Duncan, Garnett level.

 

[GreatestLaker]

How was KG better in 00'? If anything its a tossup. Playoffs isn't wasnt even close tho

KG 18/10 on 38% against the Blazers

KG's efficiency has always been trash in the playoffs for a big man

KG 23/12/5/1.5/1.5 in 2000.

1st team all nba and defense.



KG was top 3 that year easily.

Kobe was borderline top 10 in 2000. Kobe didn't turn into the Kobe that we know today until 2001.

 

[SwagKingKong]

How was KG better in 00'? If anything its a tossup. Playoffs isn't wasnt even close tho

KG 18/10 on 38% against the Blazers

KG's efficiency has always been trash in the playoffs for a big man

This nikka rounding down 18.8 / 10.8 / 8.8 (assists!!) to 18/10

If you had seen that series you would know why 1) Garnetts low field goal percentage 2) why he avaraged 9 assists per game.

He was triple teamed on basically every position, by one of the best defensive front courts of all-time; Sheed, Sabonis, Brian Grant and Pippen.

I guess context doesn't matter though

 

[Street Knowledge]

Kobe wasn't an elite two way player, well maybe for 1 or two seasons. But the truth is that Kobe hasn't been a great defensive player since ~2003 while Garnett has been elite for 15 years on both ends of the floor.

I have no clue as to why you would base your argument as to how many 30 or 40 playoff games a player has especially considering one of them is is a top 3-5 defensive player of all-time..

It would be like me saying, Kobe Bryant only has two games with 15 or more rebounds in his playoff career, and zero 20 rebound games while Garnett has six games with 20 or more rebounds and 19 with 15 rebounds or more and be all about it.

Of course he was. From 00-09' kobe was elite 2 way player and certainly he was at his absolute peak. One of the most complete players in history. and lets be honest, KG hasnt been an elite offensive player since like 2007.

I base my argument on scoring and overall offense because its the most important thing a superstar can give you in the playoffs. Individual offense>individual defense. I'm not denying KG is a better defender, what I'm saying is what Kobe gives you on offense is more valuable then what KG gives you on the defensive end.

9 30 point playoff games
ZERO 40 point games
Didnt score 30 until his 6th time in the playoffs
18/10 rebounds his first 5 years In the playoffs.

I'm sorry but that's not good enough for a franchise player.

 

[GreatestLaker]

How was KG better in 00'? If anything its a tossup. Playoffs isn't wasnt even close tho

KG 18/10 on 38% against the Blazers

KG's efficiency has always been trash in the playoffs for a big man

KG was dropping triple doubles in the playoffs that year and his teams were still losing. He just had no help. That Blazers team was great defensively. If it weren't for that 4th collapse against the Lakers they would have won it all.

 

[Street Knowledge]

at Shaq and Kobe splitting votes.

fukk outta here, Shaq had Kobe playing his Robin nikka

It's not nonsense. I would actually say that Garnett is the better player all the way up to 2006, and then was the better player in 08 too.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/

I'll dare you to go through the numbers and check out the adjusted plus and minus data we have. You'd be surprised at the kinda impact Garnett has had over the years, and sadly your bubble of Bryant will burst too.

Look, I ain't saying he's a bad player. He's a great player. But peak wise he's not on the Duncan, Garnett level.

Kobe was top 3 in MVP voting in 2003.

 

[SwagKingKong]

Of course he was. From 00-09' kobe was elite 2 way player and certainly he was at his absolute peak. One of the most complete players in history. and lets be honest, KG hasnt been an elite offensive player since like 2007.

I base my argument on scoring and overall offense because its the most important thing a superstar can give you in the playoffs. Individual offense>individual defense. I'm not denying KG is a better defender, what I'm saying is what Kobe gives you on offense is more valuable then what KG gives you on the defensive end.

9 30 point playoff games
ZERO 40 point games
Didnt score 30 until his 6th time in the playoffs
18/10 rebounds his first 5 years In the playoffs.

I'm sorry but that's not good enough for a franchise player.

Kobe was NOT elite defensively up until 2009, are you kidding me? I've already read a thousand discussions about this and the obvious answer is that Bryant hasn't been playing great perimeter defense since 2003. And this doesn't even include the fact that Kobe can't match Garnetts impact defensively in the first place since Garnett was a) better defensively and b) is a big men which is more impactful defensively.

Too bad offense isn't only about scoring though. While Kobe is the better raw scorer, Garnett outplays him when it comes to getting his teammates buckets (especially in his prime), setting screens, offensive rebounding etc. which are all a part of your offensive scheme.

The overall impact Garnett had is bigger than Bryants. You can rave about his raw scoring numbers all you want but you can't even find another single argument as to why Bryant is better and more impactful.

 

[SwagKingKong]

Kobe was top 3 in MVP voting in 2003.

And Garnett was second

No, but seriously. I know that it was a great year for Kobe and that's about the only year you'll see them splitting votes, lol. Had shaq played the full season without his bullshyt excuses not to play it would've been a different story.

 

[GreatestLaker]

Kobe was NOT elite defensively up until 2009, are you kidding me? I've already read a thousand discussions about this and the obvious answer is that Bryant hasn't been playing great perimeter defense since 2003. And this doesn't even include the fact that Kobe can't match Garnetts impact defensively in the first place since Garnett was a) better defensively and b) is a big men which is more impactful defensively.

Too bad offense isn't only about scoring though. While Kobe is the better raw scorer, Garnett outplays him when it comes to getting his teammates buckets (especially in his prime), setting screens, offensive rebounding etc. which are all a part of your offensive scheme.

The overall impact Garnett had is bigger than Bryants. You can rave about his raw scoring numbers all you want but you can't even find another single argument as to why Bryant is better and more impactful.

Kobe was a great defender, but after 2004 he focused more on offense and slacked off on the defensive end. He was still great when he tried.