I think Snowden's snitching has had a far reaching impact that most people think

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I don't know why you're bolding that like I'm dodging it... I do not give a shyt that he exposed what kind of fukkery America is on globally.

Then we have a massive problem because you're ignoring what is easily 75% of the information he revealed.

He didn't even give all the information he could have given out. He didn't give the Russians any secrets so far that we know of, he simply told the rest of the world that America is also spying on them in order to get international outrage... Something totally fukking simple.

THE REST OF THE WORLD DOES NOT DESERVE TO KNOW THAT INFORMATION.

That is N O T the mark of innocence.

ITS THAT TOTALLY fukkING SIMPLE.

USA > The rest of the world.

Just like they feel like they're better than the rest of the world.

Get that through your fukking skull.

If there was a single person put at risk by Snowden's international leaks the government would be putting them on every news channel right now making whatever case they can so I don't buy that bullshyt.

The ONLY person thats ever come out from such leaks was valerie plame because SHE went public. Most other agents are killed or put on ice. Ask Robert Hanssen how many lives are lost to his fukkery.

You're being fukking retarded at this point.

The USG would NEVER release those names nor would they allow people to go forward because that would corrupt ON GOING OPERATIONS. You don't expose shyt in the middle of an intelligence gathering mission, NOR do you expose your methods!!!

This makes no goddamn sense from you.

I personally wouldn't have released the international leaks but it's literally inconsequential. American citizens are not supposed to "just know" their government is breaking the law and spying on them, but foreign dignitaries and leaders SURE AS HELL SHOULD

I don't give a fukk about foreign dignitaries. If you care so much about "their rights" go move there.

And finally as for Al Awlaki... he was a United States citizen protected by the Constitution.

1. renounced citizenship
2. tried in-absentia in yemen.

His son wasn't rolling with him at the time, he was droned on a separate occasion days later.

For rolling with suspected terrorists.

Al Awlaki was a misguided fellow who hated America and made mean videos but if the government had any evidence to suggest that he was actively committing treason why didn't they at LEAST try him in a FISA court?

They had papers on dude. You conveniently ignore this.

Why didn't they present the evidence to a judge and at least got an arrest warrant?

Window of opportunity. Plus, you can't just arrest everyone who is an international terrorist. Stop pretending that this was a "hand cuff" situation.

They could have legally killed him many ways if they had ANY evidence proving their deluded fantasy and it turns out there was none. They just wanted him dead, a U.S. citizen killed on foreign soil without a trial by this government. What's stopping them from droning Snowden?

Snowden isn't coordinating, managing funds, and movtivating others to commit mass murder.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This is whats so blatantly funny to me.

Ya'll just forgo the majority of what Snowden did which DID hurt the United States and you SHOULD be concerned about that, and just wanna focus on the tiny bit that addresses you.

fukk that.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

The fact that we can't talk about securing this nation's interest is a goddamn travesty and @VonteMB and @Broke Wave should be ashamed of themselves.

NO ONE has a problem with him revealing domestic widespread wiretapping. NO ONE.

Now lets get to the issue at hand.

 

[Broke Wave]

Then we have a massive problem because you're ignoring what is easily 75% of the information he revealed.

THE REST OF THE WORLD DOES NOT DESERVE TO KNOW THAT INFORMATION.

That is N O T the mark of innocence.

ITS THAT TOTALLY fukkING SIMPLE.

USA > The rest of the world.

Just like they feel like they're better than the rest of the world.

Get that through your fukking skull.

The ONLY person thats ever come out from such leaks was valerie plame because SHE went public. Most other agents are killed or put on ice. Ask Robert Hanssen how many lives are lost to his fukkery.

You're being fukking retarded at this point.

The USG would NEVER release those names nor would they allow people to go forward because that would corrupt ON GOING OPERATIONS. You don't expose shyt in the middle of an intelligence gathering mission, NOR do you expose your methods!!!

This makes no goddamn sense from you.

I don't give a fukk about foreign dignitaries. If you care so much about "their rights" go move there.

1. renounced citizenship
2. tried in-absentia in yemen.

For rolling with suspected terrorists.

They had papers on dude. You conveniently ignore this.

Window of opportunity. Plus, you can't just arrest everyone who is an international terrorist. Stop pretending that this was a "hand cuff" situation.

Snowden isn't coordinating, managing funds, and movtivating others to commit mass murder.

Al Awlaki never renounced his citizenship and who cares about the trial in Yemen, he was killed by American drones which means they needed the legal right to do it. You keep dancing around this little tidbit but unfortunately killing him was totally illegal and a gross violation of the constitution. His 16 year old son wasn't rolling with suspected terrorists he was on a bus with random people who also died. He was 16 years old and also a U.S. citizen killed without a trial. I don't even know if this is a discussion anymore, you're just telling me how much of a boogie man he is without the killers providing any evidence that he was in fact trying to hurt Americans. America is supposed to be a nation of laws not men, and they did one of the worst breaches of the laws you could possibly do.

Far from who you think deserves to know things lies the truth which is that it's embarrasing that the U.S. government is spying on the email conversations of Angela Merkel. How insecure and paranoid has the American establishment become that they cannot really even trust the German Prime Minister?

You sound like someone defending their faith with this nonsensical argument honestly. You believe that the government had it's agents put in harms way by the leaks but they also don't have to provide any evidence of that we just need to believe them because even if they had evidence, they would never release it. What kind of circular logical game is that? I've heard better arguments defending the literal interpretation of Genesis.

Finally, you keep parroting this USA > the rest of the world and if ya dont' like it GIT OUT type of redneck bullshyt. Guess what... I'm C A N A D I A N

 

[Vonte3000]

The fact that we can't talk about securing this nation's interest is a goddamn travesty and @VonteMB and @Broke Wave should be ashamed of themselves.

NO ONE has a problem with him revealing domestic widespread wiretapping. NO ONE.

Now lets get to the issue at hand.

We can it's just you actin like a bytch over this man, you gettin all emotional and shyt like I insulted your mother smh

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Al Awlaki never renounced his citizenship

He did.

and who cares about the trial in Yemen, he was killed by American drones which means they needed the legal right to do it. You keep dancing around this little tidbit but unfortunately killing him was totally illegal and a gross violation of the constitution.

Defending him is a TERRIBLE example. Let me know when we're mowing down randoms. fukk Al-Awalaki. Even Jeremy Scahill acknowledges what a douche bag this waste was.

His 16 year old son wasn't rolling with suspected terrorists he was on a bus with random people who also died. He was 16 years old and also a U.S. citizen killed without a trial. I don't even know if this is a discussion anymore, you're just telling me how much of a boogie man he is without the killers providing any evidence that he was in fact trying to hurt Americans. America is supposed to be a nation of laws not men, and they did one of the worst breaches of the laws you could possibly do.

Another lie.

he was riding with targets of the US.

Far from who you think deserves to know things lies the truth which is that it's embarrasing that the U.S. government is spying on the email conversations of Angela Merkel. How insecure and paranoid has the American establishment become that they cannot really even trust the German Prime Minister?

Its called staying ahead. I'm GLAD we get the drop on foreign dignitaries. Staying on the top ain't easy.

You sound like someone defending their faith with this nonsensical argument honestly. You believe that the government had it's agents put in harms way by the leaks but they also don't have to provide any evidence of that we just need to believe them because even if they had evidence, they would never release it. What kind of circular logical game is that? I've heard better arguments defending the literal interpretation of Genesis.

Because I understand what it takes to be on top, stay on top, and get to the top.

The USA should be doing everything possible to maintain the competitive edge of knowledge.

And yes. The Government doesn't release the names of agents it compromised...why would they??? That just hurts their ability to do further operations.

A lot of shyt goes on without getting reported on.

If you pull people out of the field, yuo can do so without altering the public who this person was so they can probably go back into things OR they can save their autonomy and worry about not being harmed in the future.

How naive can you get at this point?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

We can it's just you actin like a bytch over this man, you gettin all emotional and shyt like I insulted your mother smh

Calling me a bytch, emotional, insulted, etc. blah blah blah

And yet, you can't address the non-USA related shyt Snowden released cause it'd force you to take a nuanced response to your little savior.

 

[Broke Wave]

He did.

Defending him is a TERRIBLE example. Let me know when we're mowing down randoms. fukk Al-Awalaki. Even Jeremy Scahill acknowledges what a douche bag this waste was.



Another lie.

he was riding with targets of the US.

Its called staying ahead. I'm GLAD we get the drop on foreign dignitaries. Staying on the top ain't easy.



Because I understand what it takes to be on top, stay on top, and get to the top.

The USA should be doing everything possible to maintain the competitive edge of knowledge.

And yes. The Government doesn't release the names of agents it compromised...why would they??? That just hurts their ability to do further operations.

A lot of shyt goes on without getting reported on.

If you pull people out of the field, yuo can do so without altering the public who this person was so they can probably go back into things OR they can save their autonomy and worry about not being harmed in the future.

How naive can you get at this point?

... Lets introduce the facts.

Awlaki NEVER renounced his citizenship... google it

As far as his innocent son, they said he was collateral damage and he was killed by coincidence

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...s-us-answers-about-this-dead-american/276276/

He was with other innocent boys and they were eating dinner when they died

You can believe this idea that he threatened any lives without any evidence and live in that dream world, I refuse to. I don't trust the government and military apparatus that brought us WMD's in Iraq

Anyway he didn't say the names of any agents or talk about any specifics, just talked about general things and I implore you to post anything he posted in specific that is especially egregious. Either way I said I could have lived without those international leaks but I feel it gives proper context to the domestic leaks. You need to stop being so naiive yourself, friend.

 

[Vandelay]

It wasn't common knowledge.

There were threads on this very message board with people arguing that it wasn't possible...a month prior to it leaking.

It was noble to do, but ultimately what is it gonna change. Government is gonna keep doing it, and basically the nsa is saying fukk every one we're still going to do it and a bunch of other things that you can't comprehend because we say it's right.

We're gonna become the ultimate nanny state...and sadly that's how you open your self up to becoming a tyrannical state.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

... Lets introduce the facts.

Awlaki NEVER renounced his citizenship... google it

As far as his innocent son, they said he was collateral damage and he was killed by coincidence

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics...s-us-answers-about-this-dead-american/276276/

He was with other innocent boys and they were eating dinner when they died

You can believe this idea that he threatened any lives without any evidence and live in that dream world, I refuse to. I don't trust the government and military apparatus that brought us WMD's in Iraq

Anyway he didn't say the names of any agents or talk about any specifics, just talked about general things and I implore you to post anything he posted in specific that is especially egregious. Either way I said I could have lived without those international leaks but I feel it gives proper context to the domestic leaks. You need to stop being so naiive yourself, friend.

I've read that the son was targeted as attending a wedding of suspect.

but this is getting away from the point:


And even further, I don't care how detailed the leaks were.

You DO NOT discuss foreign business of the united states. I have a massive problem with that.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

It wasn't common knowledge.

There were threads on this very message board with people arguing that it wasn't possible...a month prior to it leaking.

It was noble to do, but ultimately what is it gonna change. Government is gonna keep doing it, and basically the nsa is saying fukk every one we're still going to do it and a bunch of other things that you can't comprehend because we say it's right.

We're gonna become the ultimate nanny state...and sadly that's how you open your self up to becoming a tyrannical state.

Another poster who is missing the point

No one is defending domestic wiretapping


The question is why you all won't put Snowden's feet to the fire for exposing spy-craft/trade, and efforts to conduct intel abroad.

 

[Vandelay]

Another poster who is missing the point

No one is defending domestic wiretapping


The question is why you all won't put Snowden's feet to the fire for exposing spy-craft/trade, and efforts to conduct intel abroad.

I normally respect 99% of the shyt you say...and I'm not quite disagreeing with you...

I think perhaps more thought should have been put into how he released it.

But it needed to be known, because people need to understand that government is not infallible...and needs to be subject to constant revision.

This might have been the only way to get it out.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I normally respect 99% of the shyt you say...and I'm not quite disagreeing with you...

I think perhaps more thought should have been put into how he released it.

But it needed to be known, because people need to understand that government is not infallible...and needs to be subject to constant revision.

This might have been the only way to get it out.

You're still not addressing what the OP put in the initial post: The harm Snowden caused.

 

[CELL]

No.

He's not entirely a hero.

He can be both you know, a "hero" and a traitor.

1. If you felt like it was a problem, then reveal ONLY that information

2. He has HURT the United States abroad. Hurt. All these leaks don't exist in a vacuum. Stop pretending that there aren't undercover agents working to secure the very legitimacy of foreign intelligence you seem to think isn't important.

He blew the whistle on key information the Government was either lying about or hiding. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

As a human and as a citizen, I have as much right as anyone to know what the fukk is going on with my country. Oh and please spare me with the whole, "you should have known" bullshyt. Should we have already known that gravity was on this earth without theorising it? Should we have just known that the big hot thing in the air is the sun and is responsible for life on this planet?

Stop insulting our intelligence, there's a difference between conspiracy theories and concrete evidence. The worst thing is you're not even disgusted with your Government for doing what they did, spying on you and lying about where US tax payers money is going. You're upset with the guy who exposed them.

Man it's people like you who are part of the problem.

 

[Vandelay]

You're still not addressing what the OP put in the initial post: The harm Snowden caused.

Quantify what harm he did relative to information people needed to know.

Our intelligence operations will continue in multiple forms relatively undettered. But, educating a population, a fraction of whom will join the NSA and organizations like it, that every move we make covertly in the name of national defense are not always sound for the larger public, in fact quite the contrary.