If Africa must truly break from the shackles of the West (add china and russia) what must it do and is it too late

Claudex

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I don't think you know how destructive tribalism is in Africa. they are extremely territorial and distrusting of outsiders. How will you even go about bringing proposals to the table with people who view those who live only a few hundred kilometers away as the enemy. You can't get them to trust and work with their fellow countrymen, goodluck getting them to open up to other Africans
1. Bring up the highest members of every tribe to a table and discuss different roles with them, a council could work. Whoever chooses not to come to the table becomes a pariah (fully use the media to make it clear that it was their choice to not think on a national level as you take away their rights). No need to kill anyone, just don't consider them when enacting public policy and every time they complain be sure to explain that it was a choice, their choice. Publicly.
2. Prop up every tribe's positives, make that a grand spectacle if you must. Advertisements of every ethnicity/tribe on TV showcasing their identity. Force media to follow that script. Shrink their "freedom of press" in this regard.
3. When citizens choose to make irrational decisions due to tribalism make penalties inhumanely high. Be brutal in this approach. Show that there's a price to pay for non-tolerant behavior that can in any way shape or form harm the social or economic fabric of the country.

Start all of this off by reminding every citizen that "There is no time for bad blood..." and go from there. People like protagonism, so every member of every tribe that was invited to come to the table will come...and those that don't, you work their image to show the people they represent that maybe these people shouldn't be representing them in the first place.

Play on cultural pride, heavily.
 

Amestafuu (Emeritus)

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So you are essentially saying it's impossible for Africa to reach its full potential without the backing and approval of the West. That's depressing AF:mjcry:
it's just math it's not depressing. we all need each other. the issue is how we address getting to those needs. for too long they have taken by exploitation and the terms have not been mutually beneficial. addressing the imbalance in the world takes away the advantage of the west in the global pecking order. once we are on a level playing field then we must have assurances that it is mutually beneficial for us to remain on friendly terms.

this is the way.
 

GrindtooFilthy

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Another major obstacle to overcome, besides Tribalism too, is going to be--and people won't like this--getting rid of Abrahamic religions. Besides Latin America no other continent on earth had to almost entirely discard their traditional beliefs like African nations did post-scramble.

Every country that's emerging has 1) High population growth 2) Successive visionary leadership; 3) 3)A true sense of self.

Complete nation-building with a clear definition of who they are, what values they represent and are willing to die for, etc-Religion is useful in bringing that along. Some of these principles intersect with ours, but they're limited to esoteric cultural practices as opposed to being fleshed out and distilled for the masses.

When you look at Africa and Africans, almost everything we defend has been imported. We don't have a clear consensus on who we are, what our philosophy is—everything we do is through someone else's prism. And it has made us weak, easy to divide and conquer.
Which is why certain ethnic groups have their own religions you going to get ppl to drop their ethnic backings and adopt what exactly? That’s why I said if anything a confederation must be formed
 

Jazzy B.

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It's too late to save Africa.

Y'all will be having the exact same conversations in 50 years.

The ROT has settled in. It's over :yeshrug:
 

Steelo14

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54 countries, but only ONE has a functioning nuclear power plant. :francis:

It's crazy because Nigeria has all of the capabilities and human capital to build several. Tanzania too


Agreed

Nigeria is a natural hegemon in West Africa, but lack of implementation means the French, Chinese, and Lebanese dominate the market there. Watching France toy with Tinubu on Niger was a sad sight.

They should be plotting to kick the French out, trade with Niger for Uranium and build enough nuclear plants to become large electricity resellers. But tribalism and religion are major obstacles.
 

CopiousX

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It's too late to save Africa.

Y'all will be having the exact same conversations in 50 years.

The ROT has settled in. It's over :yeshrug:


It's an extremely complex issue ofcourse which requires a fully committed multipoint plan. Here's what I came up with
I really don't think it's that complicated. I also don't think Africa needs to do anything urgently in the current era. It is just going through growing pains of a baby continent.


Most of the issues we see in the continent today are just due to the relative youth of these nations. You got to remember that most African nations are barely 60 years old with fledgling institutions. And you're asking them to compete with Nations and empires that have existed for hundreds of years and have stacked wealth/experience that whole time. Obviously africa wont be competitive. It's like comparing a toddler to a 50 year old man.


I'd compare Africa now to America in the early 1800s, who was bullied by literally everyone ranging from Spain, to Canada, to Britain, to France, to the Dutch, because all of these countries(except canada) were comparatively ancient when juxtaposed to the baby America. England went through similar growing pains in the 1500s and 1600s when fighting against the older empires of continental Europe like ottomans or France or Russia or even the ancient Chinese dynasties.



So in a similar vein, it's just a matter of time. Just give African nations time to grow like all the dominant powers have had. New countries like PRC are extreme outliers and most nations need centuries to be successes.
 
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Steelo14

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It's too late to save Africa.

Y'all will be having the exact same conversations in 50 years.

The ROT has settled in. It's over :yeshrug:
That's nothing when western nations, china all number multiple centuries in age. Most of these countries havent been given enough time for nation building and are being rushed around.
 

Hoodoo Child

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Nigeria is a natural hegemon in West Africa, but lack of implementation means the French, Chinese, and Lebanese dominate the market there. Watching France toy with Tinubu on Niger was a sad sight.

They should be plotting to kick the French out, trade with Niger for Uranium and build enough nuclear plants to become large electricity resellers. But tribalism and religion are major obstacles.
Agreed. Can't handle them with kiddie gloves tho. France has a LONG history of being petty

 

Jalether

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1. Bring up the highest members of every tribe to a table and discuss different roles with them, a council could work. Whoever chooses not to come to the table becomes a pariah (fully use the media to make it clear that it was their choice to not think on a national level as you take away their rights). No need to kill anyone, just don't consider them when enacting public policy and every time they complain be sure to explain that it was a choice, their choice. Publicly.
2. Prop up every tribe's positives, make that a grand spectacle if you must. Advertisements of every ethnicity/tribe on TV showcasing their identity. Force media to follow that script. Shrink their "freedom of press" in this regard.
3. When citizens choose to make irrational decisions due to tribalism make penalties inhumanely high. Be brutal in this approach. Show that there's a price to pay for non-tolerant behavior that can in any way shape or form harm the social or economic fabric of the country.

Start all of this off by reminding every citizen that "There is no time for bad blood..." and go from there. People like protagonism, so every member of every tribe that was invited to come to the table will come...and those that don't, you work their image to show the people they represent that maybe these people shouldn't be representing them in the first place.

Play on cultural pride, heavily.
That actually might work:ehh:

The problem that remains is, even if you could get the leaders of most tribes to the table, how would you supress the inevitable mutiny that will arise within each tribe that agrees to unite.
 

Jalether

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I really don't think it's that complicated. I also don't think Africa needs to do anything urgently in the current era. It is just going through growing pains of a baby continent.


Most of the issues we see in the continent today are just due to the relative youth of these nations. You got to remember that most African nations are barely 60 years old with fledgling institutions. And you're asking them to compete with Nations and empires that have existed for hundreds of years and have stacked wealth/experience that whole time. Obviously africa wont be competitive. It's like comparing a toddler to a 50 year old man.


I'd compare Africa now to America in the early 1800s, who was bullied by literally everyone ranging from Spain, to Canada, to Britain, to France, to the Dutch, because all of these countries were comparatively ancient when juxtaposed to the baby America. England went through similar growing pains in the 1500s and 1600s when fighting against the older empires of continental Europe like ottomans or France or Russia or even the ancient Chinese dynasties.



So in a similar vein, it's just a matter of time. Just give African nations time to grow like all the dominant powers have had. New countries like PRC are extreme outliers and most nations need centuries to be successes.

Did you just refer to one of the oldest civilizations,china, as a new country
 

CopiousX

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Did you just refer to one of the oldest civilizations,china, as a new country
China was effectively killed by the britttish and french treaties in the 1800s and was reborn in the 1940s. Both mao and Chiang Kai-shek started new entities in the 40s.

If it helps clarify my point, Think of how ghana was an ancient entity that was also killed by mali and reborn in the 1950s or how india was evfectively killed by the brittish and was a new state with new norms and political systems in the 1950s. The people of these places are the same, but pretty much everything from economic systems, to philosophies, to political systems, to societal norms changed.


As such, There is no connection between modern china and the preqing era china. In my post i made a clear distinction between the chinese dynasties and modern china
 
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Claudex

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That actually might work:ehh:

The problem that remains is, even if you could get the leaders of most tribes to the table, how would you supress the inevitable mutiny that will arise within each tribe that agrees to unite.
Oh there will be a lot of that! :banderas:

Mutinity can be dealt with in two ways:
1. The higher the mutiny, the more you embrace and above all, protect, the members that chose to stick to the leader that came to the table.
2. These members will be forced to denounce the acts of their family/friends/spouses as thoroughly unpatriotic. The mutineers will need to be accounted for at all times and will be either disregarded or treated as traitors of the nation, depending on their infractions.

It then becomes a race, how fast can you prop up a tribe while half of it's members are fighting to not be a part of the fold? This will also be impacted by how fast you're proping up the other tribes and rewarding their commitment to the cause. Whatever you do, hold the half that's with the program close to your chest.

The rest is internal affairs. Do not meddle with that, but make it plain that the tribe that has the most members onboard with the "national script" is winning.
Like I said, make a spectacle. :manny:

Edit: To be sure, the things I am speaking off require a strong will, good judgement (with a strong dash of wisdom), some good measure of luck, and a lot of perspicacity. What it will not be is easy. It's truly an exceptional task for an exceptional person.
 

Jalether

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China was effectively killed by the britttish and french treaties in the 1800s and was reborn in the 1940s. Both mao and Chiang Kai-shek started new entities in the 40s.

If it helps clarify my point, Think of how ghana was an ancient entity that was also killed by mali and reborn in the 1950s or how india was evfectively killed by the brittish and was a new state with new norms and political systems in the 1950s. The people of these places are the same, but pretty much everything from economic systems, to philosophies, to political systems, to societal norms changed.


As such, There is no connection between modern china and the preqing era china. In my post i made a clear distinction between the chinese dynasties and modern china
got you:ehh:

On your main argument. Do you truly believe Africa has the ambition and commitment to develop into a juggernaut with time.

Considering all the barriers to change that has already been highlighted such as corruption, inferiority complex,tribalism,lack of strong defence, mismanagement of resources, political instability (rampant coup d'état) etc.

I feel your analysis is too simplistic. A country or continent that craves change would already be showing signs of ambition at even such an early stage in its development
 
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