Religion/Spirituality If God has a plan for everyone how do we have freewill?

[Truth200]

Of course it matters I am agnostic but if god exist and I haven't been following his teachings that means im going to hell but I have yet to have a christian effectively explain it to me so I guess I will go on not believing because everyone defending religion and god in her have done a horrible job.

+1

 

[010101]

so because I hold a different perspective I should be subjected to eternal suffering

why god/the devil so petty?¿?¿?¿the most extreme actions motivated by trivial ideals+


yyyyyy++

 

[Brown_Pride]

You and I define "human" differently
You think of man, as a lowly puppet, befuddled by his own existence, always one step behind, finding peace only in the submission of his imagination and pride.
I think of him as a MAN, definer of his existence, emboldened by his ignorance, submissive only to his will and desire for understanding.

Existentially, I find your position contemptible, not because of its content, but because of it's pretense, its complacency, its willingness to present and accept a masquerade of intellectual slavery as spiritual freedom, to satisfy itself with sleeping in a blanket of dogma because being awake is too noisy with unanswerable questions.

Quite to the contrary.
I don't masquerade intellectual slavery as spiritual freedom, I allow my spiritual freedom to fuel my intellectual curiosity. To the contrary of what a lot of people view as requirements of Christians I view my endevor to understand God's creation as a means of getting me closer to him. Be it big bang, string theory, or any other science for me they are all rooted in "the magic that is God" and me learning about them is more me learning about god and less me shoving my fingers in my ears and saying "GOD DID IT".

Basically you can say GOD DID IT...and here's how.

That's the difference and YES unfortunately there are a lot of people who DO revel in ignorance and complacency, i'm not one of them. I'm fine with saying I DON'T KNOW how it was done....yet.

I don't know that man will ever fully understand how everything is made or how the universe works, doesn't mean I can't try.
Science and God are not mutually exclusive, i'd argue the complete opposite. IMHO for you to understand God what better way than studying the work of his hands?

That being said and more as a side note and more to my previous point about man wanting to "understand god", particularly in regards to free will, read the following: http://biblehub.com/job/38.htm
1Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said:

2“Who is this that obscures my plans

with words without knowledge?

3Brace yourself like a man;

I will question you,

and you shall answer me.

4“Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation?

Tell me, if you understand.

5Who marked off its dimensions? Surely you know!

Who stretched a measuring line across it?

6On what were its footings set,

or who laid its cornerstone—

7while the morning stars sang together

and all the angelsa shouted for joy?

8“Who shut up the sea behind doors

when it burst forth from the womb,

9when I made the clouds its garment

and wrapped it in thick darkness,

10when I fixed limits for it

and set its doors and bars in place,

11when I said, ‘This far you may come and no farther;

here is where your proud waves halt’?

12“Have you ever given orders to the morning,

or shown the dawn its place,

13that it might take the earth by the edges

and shake the wicked out of it?

14The earth takes shape like clay under a seal;

its features stand out like those of a garment.

15The wicked are denied their light,

and their upraised arm is broken.

16“Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea

or walked in the recesses of the deep?

17Have the gates of death been shown to you?

Have you seen the gates of the deepest darkness?

18Have you comprehended the vast expanses of the earth?

Tell me, if you know all this.

19“What is the way to the abode of light?

And where does darkness reside?

20Can you take them to their places?

Do you know the paths to their dwellings?

21Surely you know, for you were already born!

You have lived so many years!

22“Have you entered the storehouses of the snow

or seen the storehouses of the hail,

23which I reserve for times of trouble,

for days of war and battle?

24What is the way to the place where the lightning is dispersed,

or the place where the east winds are scattered over the earth?

25Who cuts a channel for the torrents of rain,

and a path for the thunderstorm,

26to water a land where no one lives,

an uninhabited desert,

27to satisfy a desolate wasteland

and make it sprout with grass?

28Does the rain have a father?

Who fathers the drops of dew?

29From whose womb comes the ice?

Who gives birth to the frost from the heavens

30when the waters become hard as stone,

when the surface of the deep is frozen?

31“Can you bind the chainsb of the Pleiades?

Can you loosen Orion’s belt?

32Can you bring forth the constellations in their seasonsc

or lead out the Beard with its cubs?

33Do you know the laws of the heavens?

Can you set up God’se dominion over the earth?

34“Can you raise your voice to the clouds

and cover yourself with a flood of water?

35Do you send the lightning bolts on their way?

Do they report to you, ‘Here we are’?

36Who gives the ibis wisdomf

or gives the rooster understanding?g

37Who has the wisdom to count the clouds?

Who can tip over the water jars of the heavens

38when the dust becomes hard

and the clods of earth stick together?

39“Do you hunt the prey for the lioness

and satisfy the hunger of the lions

40when they crouch in their dens

or lie in wait in a thicket?

41Who provides food for the raven

when its young cry out to God

and wander about for lack of food?

 

[Truth200]

You do know what the word "Supernatural" means right?u

How (or why) do you try to understand something that is supernatural with natural perception? Makes no sense. You can perceive God in how he influences things in or around your life but ultimately even that is faith based and by faith based I mean having no founding in "natural" explanation...ergo the word supernatural.

Quite literally you either do or you don't and trying to "understand" it is pointless, it's a belief...not a fact, not a science but a belief. Anyone telling you different is either to ignorant to know the difference or flat out lying to you.

Interesting post.

But what do you think causes so many people to believe?

Honest question....

 

[Poh SIti Dawn]

What leads you to believe the part in bold is true?

Too many good things in my life happen for them to be coincidental.

 

[Brown_Pride]

Interesting post.

But what do you think causes so many people to believe?

Honest question....

honestly from my experience many different things
Fear, comfort, love, hope, personal experience, DOGMA, parents,

I believe or have believed for all of the reasons I just gave at one point or another in my life. Now I believe out of love and personal experience.

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Of course it matters I am agnostic

It doesn't matter, then. You asked a dumb question that's 1600 years old, got a good answer, and are just trying to do a 'gotcha' to troll the 'Christians'.

If you don't believe, then don't. No need to make excuses for your non-belief or try to 'make fun' of those who do. That's just childish.​

 

[Truth200]

It doesn't matter, then. You asked a dumb question that's 1600 years old, got a good answer, and are just trying to do a 'gotcha' to troll the 'Christians'.

If you don't believe, then don't. No need to make excuses for your non-belief or try to 'make fun' of those who do. That's just childish.​

Ridiculously uncalled for condescending post towards an agnostic person looking for answers.

 

[Brown_Pride]

Of course it matters I am agnostic but if god exist and I haven't been following his teachings that means im going to hell but I have yet to have a christian effectively explain it to me so I guess I will go on not believing because everyone defending religion and god in her have done a horrible job.

Anyone defending God is silly IMHO, but to your question of God's plan for you, it's a very broad answer. God's plan for you is very simple, go to heaven and worship him eternally. I mean point blank that's the prize at the end of the day. Consider ETERNITY in paradise vs 0-120 years on earth. What percent of infinity is 120 years?

The suffering and hardships we experience on earth are minutia in the grand scheme of things. I understand it's difficult to comprehend particularly when you don't believe in God but that's the answer IMHO. You can choose to believe and have a relationship with God and go to heaven or choose not to and don't go to heaven everything else is just noise....

 

[Dafunkdoc_Unlimited]

Ridiculously uncalled for condescending post towards an agnostic person looking for answers.

He wasn't looking for answers using a 1600-year old 'gotcha'.

Especially when it was sufficiently answered earlier.

FOH.​

 

[tmonster]

Basically you can say GOD DID IT

And what is the system you use to determine that God did it?

...and here's how.

and what is the system you use to determine the how?

 

[tmonster]

Too many good things in my life happen for them to be coincidental.

cognitive dissonance+sadism= solipsism with a side of "just world philosophy"

 

[010101]

Anyone defending God is silly IMHO, but to your question of God's plan for you, it's a very broad answer. God's plan for you is very simple, go to heaven and worship him eternally. I mean point blank that's the prize at the end of the day. Consider ETERNITY in paradise vs 0-120 years on earth. What percent of infinity is 120 years?

The suffering and hardships we experience on earth are minutia in the grand scheme of things. I understand it's difficult to comprehend particularly when you don't believe in God but that's the answer IMHO. You can choose to believe and have a relationship with God and go to heaven or choose not to and don't go to heaven everything else is just noise....

so the point of those 0-120 years of life which is full of bullshyt for most people
what is the point of that?¿?¿?¿

if he wanted worship he could just be direct
with the capacity to do anything the sacrifice and suffering of life are not necessary

it was a choice to cause/allow life to suffer and then damn them to hell

what the fukk+

 

[tmonster]

Ridiculously uncalled for condescending post towards an agnostic person looking for answers.

what else would he do

 

[tmonster]

Yes we can choose to not follow his plan and follow ours, thats called living in sin and altho God loves us he cannot be in the presence of sin.


he cant bring us to heaven because we are born with a sinful nature from adam and one day he will call us back to be with him for now our job is to make sure as many of us as possible get to go with him when he comes back.


earth and the garden were meant to be a place to chill with God, but adam and eve sinned so they were cast out :/



once again im not expert in this and a pastor could help answer alot of the questions, that is if you even believe the answers

so we are on earth to redeem ourselves from original sin and earn a place into heaven?
why did god allow sin to exist in the world in the first place?
why have this existence that's riddled with pain at all?