If Lb makes Finals but Loses Again, is it time his legacy starts taking hits?

[fifth column]

The numbers are the numbers when you compare the greatest of the greats so

 

[KOBE]

Do Robert Horry's titles make his legacy outweigh that of, say, Kevin Garnett? Or Patrick Ewing? Or Karl Malone?

You guys want to act like championships are individual achievements only when it suits your narratives.
When the Lakers won, it was all Kobe?
But when they were .500 teams it was all Smush Parker's fault?

Did Robert Horry have the impact that those players did? No? Then stop relying on silly questions to try attempt to prove a point.

I've never pretended any of that, but I also don't want to see the case that making the finals means a lot when it's clear as day Lebron would not be reaching the finals if he had this exact same team in the other conference.

I won't hold it against Lebron for losing in the finals if his stans stop pretending that making it there is somehow a massive accomplishment when his team gets trashed half the time.

 

[tjax03]

So your advice to bron is to sabotage his own team and lose in the first round? That way his legacy doesnt take as many "hits"

Make 6 straight finals with two different teams and still get clowned brehs

There are two things at play here

1. Espn has lebron as the 3rd greatest player ever yet lebron in the post season does not reflect that so he needs to start living up to that hype and he hasnt

2. As someone said the eastern conference has been bad since jordan left so lebron getting to the finals most with the help of other all stars isnt exactly an accomplishment.


So basically lebron is billed as one of the greatest yet played in the weakest eastern conference era ever. Gets to the finals and proeceeds to not only lose but get throttled and choses to shut down and dissapear in majority of them

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

Who says this?

Are you really going to play this stupid game like you've never seen people cite "Kobe's 5 titles" when talking about his legacy? Especially when they try to compare Kobe to other players?

When talking about an individuals success, why is it necessary to point out they played for a team? We don't do this for Jordan, or Shaq, or Lbron. Seems a little weird how those cats get credit for "Jordan won 6 rings", but when it comes to Kobe, "Kobe played on a team, he didnt win by himself".

 

[Prodyson]

Jim Kelly is 0-4 in the Super Bowl.
Eli Manning is 2-0 in the Super Bowl.

and if you think that championship record makes Eli Manning the better QB, then

I don't think that's the argument though... especially considering Eli has never been considered a "great" by anyone. Doesn't Jim Kelly's legacy take a hit because he could never actually win it. Doesn't Montana's take a hit? Wasn't that one of the knocks on Peyton?

I don't know if I completely agree since he had won two. But it's a valid question though.

 

[Rigby.]

There are two things at play here

1. Espn has lebron as the 3rd greatest player ever yet lebron in the post season does not reflect that so he needs to start living up to that hype and he hasnt

2. As someone said the eastern conference has been bad since jordan left so lebron getting to the finals most with the help of other all stars isnt exactly an accomplishment.


So basically lebron is billed as one of the greatest yet played in the weakest eastern conference era ever. Gets to the finals and proeceeds to not only lose but get throttled and choses to shut down and dissapear in majority of them

As someone else said the teams they played in the ECF in Miami were pretty good more times than not. And last year, there was a pretty strong feeling that Chicago was the better team than Cleveland everywhere except LeBron. So to say he's dominated weak teams is completely false. Obviously, the peak team from the West is gonna be better than whoever doesn't make it from the East, that's why they're in the Finals and that group isnt.

 

[Remote]

When talking about an individuals success, why is it necessary to point out they played for a team? We don't do this for Jordan, or Shaq, or Lbron. Seems a little weird how those cats get credit for "Jordan won 6 rings", but when it comes to Kobe, "Kobe played on a team, he didnt win by himself".

Jordan won because he had Pippen...and later on he could lean on Kukoc and Rodman.

The whole "Jordan won 6 titles" is just as silly as any other argument for any player.
All you have to do is look at how he was throttled by the Pistons for years before he finally broke through to know it's the truth.

If you guys are gonna talk about impact and performance, you can hardly point to anything that suggests Lebron losing 3 or 4 Finals specifically being HIS fault.

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

Jordan won because he had Pippen...and later on he could lean on Kukoc and Rodman.

The whole "Jordan won 6 titles" is just as silly as any other argument for any player.
All you have to do is look at how he was throttled by the Pistons for years before he finally broke through to know it's the truth.

If you guys are gonna talk about impact and performance, you can hardly point to anything that suggests Lebron losing 3 or 4 Finals specifically being HIS fault.

That doesnt answer my question though. Nobody has a problem when its said Jordan won 6, or Magic won 5, or Bird won 3. Its understood they were part of a team that won together, but say Kobe won 5, and people want to start getting super technical. Im just curious as to why?

 

[homiedontplaydat]

He needs that ring this year. When u look at all the factors against him this ring would mean the most to his legacy. If he wins this year

- He could possibly beat the team with the best record in NBA history in the finals

- He would finally have won one for Cleveland which would basically make him a basketball god in Ohio

- He would take the league back from Curry and have the media back on his jock. I'm getting sick now thinking about how bad the ESPN dikk riding would be

- He would shut up some of the naysayers who claim he disappears in big moments. If they beat the Warriors in the finals this year, LeBron is gonna have to hit some big shots in crunch time it's no way around that. A ring this year would take LeBrons career to top 5 levels

 

[Playa With Tha Passport]

I thought when you made finals u supposed to win??

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

The only time the East was historically weak was last year when Believeland steamrolled the hawks. It was a dogfight getting out of the East for some of those Heat teams..Boston, Chicago, Indy were all good.

Stop it. Lbron has faced 7 .500 or worse teams in the playoffs. In that same timeframe, 2006 til now, no western conference team with a .500 or worse record has ever played in the playoffs.

 

[MJ Truth]

It's better to lose in the Finals than the second or third round so I'm not sure exactly why points would be "taken" off. LeBron is the only champion where people care about which Finals he lost. LeBron gets criticism as though he's still looking for his first title.

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

It's better to lose in the Finals than the second or third round so I'm not sure exactly why points would be "taken" off. LeBron is the only champion where people care about which Finals he lost. LeBron gets criticism as though he's still looking for his first title.

False. Many people hold Kareems 4 losses against him. It is said that because Jordan is 6-0, that its better than 6-4.

 

[Remote]

That doesnt answer my question though. Nobody has a problem when its said Jordan won 6, or Magic won 5, or Bird won 3. Its understood they were part of a team that won together, but say Kobe won 5, and people want to start getting super technical. Im just curious as to why?

I'm telling you it's a corny way to compare any player.

So those guys who you say don't have a problem when they mention Jordan's...Magic's...Bird's titles? I DO have a problem with that.

Well, to a degree. I should back up a bit.
How you perform in the finals does matter. There's no denying that.

But what I'm saying is...has Lebron performed so badly in the finals that he cost his team a title? Did he blow a chance at a ring against a team he clearly should have beaten?
Those are big and fair questions.

You guys can't sit here and point to Lebron losing to a clearly superior Spurs team (for example) and then say he's a scrub.
Especially if you're talking about the Lakers beating the Pacers, Sixers and Nets on their way to a 3-peat. (for the record those Lakers teams would have beaten just about anyone, but I'm just saying)

And let's be clear about what we're discussing.
Lebron is averaging 28.2 points, 6.7 assists and 8.8 rebounds per game in the playoffs for his ENTIRE CAREER.

There are reasons why he is 2-4 in the Finals, but he's not to blame for it.

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

I'm telling you it's a corny way to compare any player.

So those guys who you say don't have a problem when they mention Jordan's...Magic's...Bird's titles? I DO have a problem with that.

Well, to a degree. I should back up a bit.
How you perform in the finals does matter. There's no denying that.

But what I'm saying is...has Lebron performed so badly in the finals that he cost his team a title? Did he blow a chance at a ring against a team he clearly should have beaten?
Those are big and fair questions.

You guys can't sit here and point to Lebron losing to a clearly superior Spurs team (for example) and then say he's a scrub.
Especially if you're talking about the Lakers beating the Pacers, Sixers and Nets on their way to a 3-peat. (for the record those Lakers teams would have beaten just about anyone, but I'm just saying)

And let's be clear about what we're discussing.
Lebron is averaging 28.2 points, 6.7 assists and 8.8 rebounds per game in the playoffs for his ENTIRE CAREER.

There are reasons why he is 2-4 in the Finals, but he's not to blame for it.

If you can get to the finals, you are good enough to win especially if you want to talk about stats. No excuses. And yes, he is a major reason his teams have lost finals just as hes a major reason they won them.