Illimatic's influence on Pac

[KamikazePilot]

Illmatic was the best solo hip hop album of 94
until Ready to die came out

"Your reign on top was short like leprechauns"

 

[spliz]

I'd have to see or hear it myself, but Nas had to be high, purposely evasive, or just flat out lying his ass off to say he never heard of a group from his own burrough that was out at the same time he was, and was fukkin with the same producers he was. O.C. was signed by MC Serch along with Nas, and O.C. was practically a member of Organized around this time. He was down with them before he even became a DITC member.

Shyt, Pac himself even shouted out Organized Konfusion on his album, but somehow Nas never heard of them?

I'm callin Ducktales on Nasir here. Maybe he didn't hear Stray Bullet, but aint no way he never heard of OK being from Queens during that era.

Im telling u bro. The nikka said he never heard of em. Me personally I think he was either frontin back then. Either that or he really aint give a fukk or care about certain artists. shyt the nikka gave QuestLove a $20 bill cause he thought he was a delivery man. Lol. So its very possible Nas aint hear Stray Bullet in any capacity. Alotta people at the time didnt.

 

[Ziggiy]

Yeah, I agree it's possible he never heard the song itself before he wrote I Gave You Power, but he can't claim he was unaware that OK even existed. If you're working with the same people who were producing and publishing your album, who live in the same area as you, that ain't likely.

Organized wasn't big on a mainstream level by any means, but they def got respect from their peers and were known in the industry. Pac shouted them out, Biggie was on a track with Prince Po, I even remember them being on the cover of Rap Pages. They weren't some no names trying to get on.

I think before we go on and on about what Nas MIGHT have said let’s post some receipts about what DID happen. Straight from Pharaoh Monch’s mouth

Hip Hop DX. I want to ask you a question I been curious to know the answer to for 14 years: Two years after you and Po’s classic “Stray Bullet,” when you heard Nas’ “I Gave You Power” and Tupac’s “Me And My Girlfriend,” did you think you got bit at all? ‘Cause you know they both had to be up on the Stress album.
Pharoahe Monch: In terms of Nas – me and Nas spoke about this a couple of years ago, a little private conversation we had – not directly about the issue. But recently, he had reached out to me and he said sometime after the song [was released] people were approaching him about similarities, and you and having similar ideas and concepts. And from his standpoint he was explaining it more of like great minds [think alike]… Lately when I heard [“I Gave You Power” again] I didn’t feel that way about it in terms of like this dude just straight bit our shyt.

Pharoahe Monch: Back On My B.S.

 

[Benefited]

I'd have to see or hear it myself, but Nas had to be high, purposely evasive, or just flat out lying his ass off to say he never heard of a group from his own burrough that was out at the same time he was, and was fukkin with the same producers he was. O.C. was signed by MC Serch along with Nas, and O.C. was practically a member of Organized around this time. He was down with them before he even became a DITC member.

Shyt, Pac himself even shouted out Organized Konfusion on his album, but somehow Nas never heard of them?

I'm callin Ducktales on Nasir here. Maybe he didn't hear Stray Bullet, but aint no way he never heard of OK being from Queens during that era.

Exactly,Nas lying his ass off.

And since Pac did shout out Organized Konfusion we might as well just say they inspired 2pac to make "Me and My Girlfriend". Illmatics influence is grossly overstated as Pac was a fan of so many people and not afraid to admit,as numerous interviews and songs like Representin 93,and Old School show. People don't seem to understand that being a fan doesn't equate to influence.

 

[@OffHalsted]

Pac became less lyrical after 2pacalypse era....

 

[Bondye Vodou]

name a nikka nas ain't influenced

 

[IllmaticDelta]

 

[pointproven214]

Exactly,Nas lying his ass off.

And since Pac did shout out Organized Konfusion we might as well just say they inspired 2pac to make "Me and My Girlfriend". Illmatics influence is grossly overstated as Pac was a fan of so many people and not afraid to admit,as numerous interviews and songs like Representin 93,and Old School show. People don't seem to understand that being a fan doesn't equate to influence.

yup yup

 

[mson]

OK also shouted out Pac.



But that's neither here nor there

Did anyone else read this? Is the discussion still going on?

 

[Benefited]

Everyone was influenced by Illmatic.

Stop it?

Lets say many lyricist were influenced by Illmatic,we didn't see an impactful needle move after Illmatic.Not from majority of his peers,and certainly not everyone. Nas himself even had to acquiesce like many lyricist. Would you consider Illmatic one of those rare albums that changed the climate? I can't,its an insult to the RARE few albums that did.

 

[FreshAIG]

Stop it?

Lets say many lyricist were influenced by Illmatic,we didn't see an impactful needle move after Illmatic.Not from majority of his peers,and certainly not everyone. Nas himself even had to acquiesce like many lyricist. Would you consider Illmatic one of those rare albums that changed the climate? I can't,its an insult to the RARE few albums that did.

the entire east coast stepped it up lyrically after Illmatic or at least attempted to do so.

I can't say the impact it had on the south or the west but in NY is it's arguably the most influential album to ever drop besides maybe Life After Death

 

[Benefited]

the entire east coast stepped it up lyrically after Illmatic or at least attempted to do so.

I can't say the impact it had on the south or the west but in NY is it's arguably the most influential album to ever drop besides maybe Life After Death

Possibly,but thats always been somewhat of a reach for me. As east coast emcees were always trying to be better than the last,"stepping it up" is too vague and forced props.

Classic album,but not in that rare class.Most influential east coast album besides Life After Death?

1.Rakim-Paid In Full
2.Run DMC
3.LL Cool J-Radio
4.Public Enemy-It Takes A Nation.....
5.KRS-Criminal Minded


Hard for me to squeeze it in the top 5,because we can say the impact these albums had on the east and nationally. It took Illmatic decades to have the impact and influence that these had immediately. I guess it could be argued immediate influence and having influence down the line should be viewed the same. But albums like Reasonable Doubt make me think twice,and say no to that thinking.

 

[FreshAIG]

Possibly,but thats always been somewhat of a reach for me. As east coast emcees were always trying to be better than the last,"stepping it up" is too vague and forced props.

Classic album,but not in that rare class.Most influential east coast album besides Life After Death?

1.Rakim-Paid In Full
2.Run DMC
3.LL Cool J-Radio
4.Public Enemy-It Takes A Nation.....
5.KRS-Criminal Minded


Hard for me to squeeze it in the top 5,because we can say the impact these albums had on the east and nationally. It took Illmatic decades to have the impact and influence that these had immediately. I guess it could be argued immediate influence and having influence down the line should be viewed the same. But albums like Reasonable Doubt make me think twice,and say no to that thinking.

You saw the Illmatic influence immediately though. Mic Geronimo, Fat Joe, Raekwon, Prodigy, Big Pun, etc..have all directly said Illmatic influenced them heavily. Pun out his own mouth said the second verse of Memory Lane is what made him start rapping

Plus let's not forget the "super producer" album. Illmatic was really the first album to have all the big producers work on it. Back then it was usually one, maybe two producers handling the majority of the production on albums Illmatic was like the first one to have star-studded producers throughout.

I think you're talking impact more than Influence. Paid in Full and Criminal Minded are the only two off those list that I feel influenced the East Coast as much as Illmatic. The other three are legendary albums, but I don't think they influenced the sound or how people rapped like Illmatic did, at all. Run DMC, LL didn't even have their own styles really. Run DMC took their style from Cold Crush. LL got his style from Kool Moe Dee and Silver Fox and a little bit of Caz.

 

[Benefited]

You saw the Illmatic influence immediately though. Mic Geronimo, Fat Joe, Raekwon, Prodigy, Big Pun, etc..have all directly said Illmatic influenced them heavily. Pun out his own mouth said the second verse of Memory Lane is what made him start rapping

Plus let's not forget the "super producer" album. Illmatic was really the first album to have all the big producers work on it. Back then it was usually one, maybe two producers handling the majority of the production on albums Illmatic was like the first one to have star-studded producers throughout.

I think you're talking impact more than Influence. Paid in Full and Criminal Minded are the only two off those list that I feel influenced the East Coast as much as Illmatic. The other three are legendary albums, but I don't think they influenced the sound or how people rapped like Illmatic did, at all. Run DMC, LL didn't even have their own styles really. Run DMC took their style from Cold Crush. LL got his style from Kool Moe Dee and Silver Fox and a little bit of Caz.

You can't say that when Nas sounded like Kool G rap
On that note,hate to call Big Pun a big fat liar,but I have to call that into question if he really said that.

Spoiler

For one there is no way Big Pun just started rapping in 93-94. And for two,how can someone who idolized G Rap enough to kiss his ring say such nonsense?on that note Wanted:Dead Or Alive is up there as well,G Rap being a pioneer of "mafioso raps" that went on to dominate the east for a long time. Good knowledge on LL I didn't realize. But I am talking about influence,impact plays a big role in that though. When I listed those albums I'm speaking of influence those east coast albums had locally as well as nationally. On a national level people know those styles as being from Run Dmc and LL. That aggressive style seemed to have become a staple until Rakim came along,and many people outside of New York cited basing their styles and content off those guys,and you can actually see it. With Illmatic it's mostly just vague statement about rappers stepping up lyrically. Which I'm sure is true,but just doesn't mean much up against those heavy weights I listed imo. Because every great emcee to ever come out of the east coast made their peers step it up.

The producer thing isn't exactly true,but I know what you mean.

 

[delnegro]

Many rappers went back in the lab when Illimatic got leaked even before it dropped. Not necessarily to sound like it but to step up lyrical wise. A lot of you should shut the fukk up sometime and listen to ppl that were in the mix of the culture not by way of magazines.