Illmatic and Infamous Are NOT Mainstream Hip Hop Albums? True or False

[num123]

All i know is i saw multiple music videos for songs from both albums on mainstream TV (MTV, BET) when they came out. That is mainstream in my mind, at the very least mainstream exposure.

 

[Biscayne]

No one considered Wu, Nas or Mobb as sellouts in 94-95. Whit kids in suburbs wanted Snoop and Dre.

Gritty street music in all of it’s forms had Appel to wide audience outside of just the urban crowd.

I’ll never for the life of me understand the shot at Das Efx. I get why he would mention Onyx given their image and that the song is partially about him pining for hip hop before west coast gangsta shyt became dominant. But at the end of the day, he gave Onyx and Das half a bar, even if it flew under the radar at the time.

If East Coast hardcore was very much commercial by 94, who were the artists doing numbers at that time without making radio singles? I’ll give you Wu. But they are the exception to the rule. East Coast hardcore shyt was absolutely not commercially viable then or really ever outside of a few exceptions.

What is your definition of commercial hip hop in 94-95? Spell out the parameters so I can understand what you mean.

Getting AirPlay on mainstream radio, gettitn airplay on music television shows. Music being featured on soundtracks. Artist making it to live tv shows(like Nas performing on All That.)

 

[mobbinfms]

Gritty street music in all of it’s forms had Appel to wide audience outside of just the urban crowd.

Of course. But most of grimy underground NY albums in 94-95 didn’t go gold. So they had far less of an audience than more commercial NY shyt and west coast shyt

Getting AirPlay on mainstream radio, gettitn airplay on music television shows. Music being featured on soundtracks. Artist making it to live tv shows(like Nas performing on All That.)

what do you mean by mainstream radio and music television shows.
There is a difference between daytime regular rotation and Stretch and Bob and the Wake Up Show.
There is also a difference between mainstream regular rotation on MTV as opposed to Rap city and Yo MTV raps.

 

[JustCKing]

In the Tri-State area for the most part & more than likely. You can't forget how regional rap was back then. I highly doubt Shook Ones Pt 2 was getting crazy spins outside of NY like that in 95

I already acknowledged how regional rap was back then. Put this in perspective though. "If I Ruled The World" was huge. You want to know where that song peaked? It peaked at #53. You're really going to tell me that song only got play in the Tri State area? Keeping it 1995, Lost Boyz "Jeeps, Coups, Bimaz, and the Benz" peaked at #67. You can't tell me that song didn't get play outside the Tri State area.

 

[JustCKing]

You forget NY was the epicenter of media & entertainment back then. Pretty much the end all be all. And like I said, most of those spins were more than likely coming from the Tri-State area & probably Maryland/DC since they're close.

And I know they're outlier regions that might've been playing them but not like the Tri-State

Breh, that's like saying Outkast was an underground group. Southern Hip Hop wasn't selling like that in 1994 and I could argue that most of Kast's spins was coming from the South. SPCM was a breakthrough album for The South considering Geto Boys was the closest thing to a Kast album that was selling before Kast. Kriss Kross was kiddie rap and Arrested Development were pretty much one album wonders. Then there were the bass groups like 95 South, 69 Boyz, and music like 2LiveCrew.

 

[Knicksman20]

I already acknowledged how regional rap was back then. Put this in perspective though. "If I Ruled The World" was huge. You want to know where that song peaked? It peaked at #53. You're really going to tell me that song only got play in the Tri State area? Keeping it 1995, Lost Boyz "Jeeps, Coups, Bimaz, and the Benz" peaked at #67. You can't tell me that song didn't get play outside the Tri State area.

I actually agree to a certain degree but let me ask you this. Where do you think Billboard's HQ is located........

With If I Ruled The World, the sample was extremely familiar to the older generation that listened to hip hop. And it had singing from L-Boogie who was scorching hot coming off the success of the Fugees. Tracks like that usually hit mainstream way easier then others. The Lost Boyz had Easy Mo Bee as producer of that track; who happened to produce about half of RTD from Big. It also wasn't hardcore track either so it made it more relatable for casual rap listeners. Easy Mo Bee had a pretty damn successful 94/95 too

 

[JustCKing]

Of course. But most of grimy underground NY albums in 94-95 didn’t go gold. So they had far less of an audience than more commercial NY shyt and west coast shyt

Mobb Deep went Gold though in 1995. Illmatic went gold in 1996. Rae, ODB, and GZA went gold in real time.

1994-1995, there wasn't a whole lot of platinum or even multi-platinum rap albums overall. Off the top of my head:

Warren G- 3X platinum
Pac- 2X platinum
Da Brat- Platinum
OutKast- Platinum
Bone Thugs- 4X platinum
Scarface- Platinum
Coolio- 3X platinum
LL Cool J- 2X Platinun

Biggie- 2X platinum (before he died), 6X platinum overall

Method Man- Platinum

 

[JustCKing]

I actually agree to a certain degree but let me ask you this. Where do you think Billboard's HQ is located........

With If I Ruled The World, the sample was extremely familiar to the older generation that listened to hip hop. And it had singing from L-Boogie who was scorching hot coming off the success of the Fugees. Tracks like that usually hit mainstream way easier then others. The Lost Boyz had Easy Mo Bee as producer of that track; who happened to produce about half of RTD from Big. It also wasn't hardcore track either so it made it more relatable for casual rap listeners. Easy Mo Bee had a pretty damn successful 94/95 too

Regardless of who was familiar with the sample on "If I Ruled The World", look where it peaked. Same goes for Lost Boyz regardless of producer.

 

[Cladyclad]

Shook Ones Pt 2 didn’t get daytime radio play nationwide. I’ve told you that in CA. @hex told you that for Kansas City. @BmoreGorilla told you that for Baltimore. You didn’t even have a hip hop station in ATL apparently.

No play in Detroit either

 

[frush11]

You forget NY was the epicenter of media & entertainment back then. Pretty much the end all be all. And like I said, most of those spins were more than likely coming from the Tri-State area & probably Maryland/DC since they're close.

And I know they're outlier regions that might've been playing them but not like the Tri-State

That's never been the case

 

[Bugzbunny129]

What is your definition of mainstream within hip hop in 94-95? Spell out the parameters as you see them. Then I’ll address everything here.

By the way - RD is Riding Dirty, not Reasonable Doubt.

Kurious wasn’t underpromoted. He got three videos and a segment on Rap City. Basically what most rappers got back then.

Kuripus didnt get 2 albums in 2 years, multi ost promotion and his beats playing on mixtapes and the like. Mobb deep did.

Main stream is just a word thats parameters mean differently to different people. But lets not pretend like these guys werent trying to sell records. They succeeded and thus became mainstream. Kurious didnt.at heart theres no difference between any of the artists its simply a label designation vs someone who had nothing.

But if we tlking promotion, kuripus did not get mobb deep promotion nor backing. Shook ones was a top 10 rap song on bullboard. A top 60 song in the country. They debuted at number 6 with hell on earth. They were on like 5 osts in the same time frame. Their beats were used on other loud promoted material. They had label backing. Thats no longer underground. Sound wise aside they recieved instant aclaim from their album , had certifications internationally. How is that underground? How is being top of the game underground?

Lets not even get into this was their second deal as well. That first album was their kurious stage. This was a diff ballgame. And nas had as heavy as label backing as anyone ever did.

Like i said splitting hairs to define a word that has multiple meanings to multiple people.

Ok so its not mainstream. What changes? Nothing. This conversation is pointless. I gave my 2 cents and why it wasnt. You give me guidelines i gotta follow for you to answer, I can say no more on the matter.

 

[BmoreGorilla]

Brehs really brought Kurious up in this thread

 

[ISO]

You forget NY was the epicenter of media & entertainment back then. Pretty much the end all be all. And like I said, most of those spins were more than likely coming from the Tri-State area & probably Maryland/DC since they're close.

And I know they're outlier regions that might've been playing them but not like the Tri-State

There’s no way of quantifying this. Most NY rappers then and now best markets are the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Upper South, and rust belt. The Billboard 100 chart is an American chart, I highly doubt that the Tri-State alone could propel a song to the Billboard 100.

 

[Art Barr]

@Art Barr were you in Chicago when Shook One’s Pt 2 and Infamous dropped?
Was Shook Ones Pt 2 getting daytime regular rotation radio play in Chicago?
I know Chicago wasn’t really a hip hop city at that time, was there even a radio station playing hip hop during the day?

I answered this earlier.

Chicago at that time is how the entire world was marketed hiphop.

We had arguably the next best underground scene after nyc then easy.
As the people who made hiphop global was from Chicago. Plus rhe person the world wrongly let Kanye misappropriate. Then reward Kanye for being an inferior biter.

So this whole idea that Chicago had no scene is a complete fallacy.

Where did you grt that from.

If Chicago had no scene.

How did I become who I became breh.


Hiphop became global because of chicago's hophop scene.
Chicago created how to market hiphop to the masses. Not nyc breh.



Art Barr

 

[Knicksman20]

There’s no way of quantifying this. Most NY rappers then and now best markets are the Northeast, Mid-Atlantic, Upper South, and rust belt. The Billboard 100 chart is an American chart, I highly doubt that the Tri-State alone could propel a song to the Billboard 100.

If you were old enough back in 95, you'd understand where I'm coming from. I'm not saying definitively that that's where they came from either but it's more than likely. There weren't many hip hop stations back then, add to the fact music was super regional back then, & hot songs took a bit to make it to other regions too