Imagin kg /duncan/hakeem or shaq struggling against Isaiah Hartenstein

Goat poster

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Also his terrible defense isn't talked about NEARLY ENOUGH


I like Joker but the near universal glazing of him annoys me.

We find reasons to hate on certain players that ALSO put up AMAZING numbers consistently but if you talk about Joker people pearl clutch
:snoop:
 

Po pimp

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I mean honestly KAT and Zubac fared well against him. Hardly all timers.
You really putting KAT in the same sentence as Zubac? Was KAT not the #1 pick and won ROY?

KAT’s career averages: 23.1, 11.1, 3.2
Jokic’s career averages: 21.8, 10.9, 7.2

KAT has the stats. He just lacks the hardware and winning
 

Bar Razor

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You really putting KAT in the same sentence as Zubac? Was KAT not the #1 pick and won ROY?

KAT’s career averages: 23.1, 11.1, 3.2
Jokic’s career averages: 21.8, 10.9, 7.2

KAT has the stats. He just lacks the hardware and winning
Reading comprehension is key. I didn’t put them in the same sentence. KAT had some success slowing him in the playoffs last year and Zubac did this year.
 
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Jokic is doing what Zion would be doing if could get his fitness in order and stay healthy...dominate a league that doesn't value stout, sturdy 5's and 4's and hasn't for years.



The modern 5 is too light in the ass for Jokic, and he's feasting. Zion does the same shyt at the 4 when he's playing.




Jokic is a great player that looks even more impressive because the traditional 5 is damn near extinct outside of Zu, Edey and Embiid.
 

ISO

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Jokic a great center in a weak era for centers . best player of the 2020s for sure but this the weakest nba era ive seen and i havent missed an nba playoffs since 95
. Hed be vlade divac status in the 90s with a bit more assist

I dont hate him Either . it just it what it is
:mjlol:
 
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You time travel Jokic to 1994 and he's not dominating Ewing, Dream, Shaq and D.Rob...it's not happening, and you'd be a fool to think otherwise.



He's not even doing the shyt he's doing today against Smits, Vlade, Perkins...you have no concept of how valued and important center play was back then.
 
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They keep giving Joker MVP's he needs more Chips to go with them.

Giannis could theoretically have just as many MVP's as Joker but apparently Giannis needs to win more :martin:
Giannis hasn't been out of the 1st round since 2022. I swear y'all dudes post the dumbest shyt.
 
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Reading comprehension is key. I didn’t put them in the same sentence. KAT had some success slowing him in the playoffs last year and Zubac did this year.
It wasn't necessarily KAT, by himself, but more about the multiple big bodies they could throw at Jokic, which any big would have trouble with in the same situation. Jokic had no other big to help him going up against Gobert, KAT and Naz. That's a harder prospect to deal with than just one star big. To make matters worse, Denver was getting the bare minimum from the role players too, with an already shallow rotation.

He still averaged 30 points on 50% shooting in that series.

Zubac did his thing for parts of the series, but again, the Clips had a deeper rotation and Zubac was like #3/#4 option on the team, where he could conserve a lot of his energy for defense. He didn't have to carry the main offensive load like Jokic did, because if he did, he wouldn't have had any energy for the other end.

Jokic averaged 24 on 50% shooting in that series.

It's less about the actual player that Jokic opposes, and more about the help they have around them.

You put any of those great centers up against Jokic with the exact same help (both in quality and quantity), and you'd be surprised at the results.
 
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Why is it y'all have such an easy time bringing up Jokic's lack of big man competition, but don't ever have the same energy when it comes to discussing MJ and his lack of guard competition, all the while playing during the expansion era? What was the big man competition that Shaq faced in the playoffs on his way to winning three titles in LA?

Always trying to bring down players of today using standards y'all don't dare use for past greats.
 
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It wasn't necessarily KAT, by himself, but more about the multiple big bodies they could throw at Jokic, which any big would have trouble with in the same situation. Jokic had no other big to help him going up against Gobert, KAT and Naz. That's a harder prospect to deal with than just one star big. To make matters worse, Denver was getting the bare minimum from the role players too, with an already shallow rotation.

He still averaged 30 points on 50% shooting in that series.

Zubac did his thing for parts of the series, but again, the Clips had a deeper rotation and Zubac was like #3/#4 option on the team, where he could conserve a lot of his energy for defense. He didn't have to carry the main offensive load like Jokic did, because if he did, he wouldn't have had any energy for the other end.

Jokic averaged 24 on 50% shooting in that series.

It's less about the actual player that Jokic opposes, and more about the help they have around them.

You put any of those great centers up against Jokic with the exact same help (both in quality and quantity), and you'd be surprised at the results.
Nicca JOKIC was gassed at the other end, which is why Zu was able to "do his thing", as you said.



Jokic was flopping and flailing like never before that Clippers series because Zu had him under pressure. He was banging with an oak tree he rarely goes against in today's NBA.



Now let's ask him to bang bodies with Shaq or Ewing, or deal with Dream or D.Rob's power, skill and athleticism and still put up insane numbers on offense.



Like I said, it's not happening.
 
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Why is it y'all have such an easy time bringing up Jokic's lack of big man competition, but don't ever have the same energy when it comes to discussing MJ and his lack of guard competition, all the while playing during the expansion era? What was the big man competition that Shaq faced in the playoffs on his way to winning three titles in LA?

Always trying to bring down players of today using standards y'all don't dare use for past greats.
This lame ass argument was already destroyed before...:skip:



Clyde, Dumars, Reggie and Richmond are HOF'ers nicca. Jordan faced them in their primes.



Name ONE center other than Embiid in Jokic's era that's a HOF player...that's what I thought.
 
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Nicca JOKIC was gassed at the other end, which is why Zu was able to "do his thing", as you said.
When I say Zubac "did his thing", I'm talking about what he was doing defensively, which really, didn't affect Jokic too much. Zubac's defense was more about shutting down scoring opportunities inside of the paint for anyone else that came in there.

What affected Jokic was having to burn energy trying to shut down the threat of Harden's shooting. And then having to deal with multiple big wing help defenders in his vicinity (which he wouldn't have issues with in the 90s because of the illegal defense rule).


What was Zubac doing to stop this?
Jokic was flopping and flailing like never before that Clippers series because Zu had him under pressure. He was banging with an oak tree he rarely goes against in today's NBA.
I remember you posting this nonsense during the series, only for Zubac be the one who ended up tapping out and could barely score in Games 6 and 7. Jokic was flopping because he couldn't buy a call because the Clips were hacking him without getting called for fouls, and the only way to get calls in his favor was to sell contact. It had little to do with what Zubac was doing, himself.

If all Jokic had to compete with was banging with a player similar to his size, the games would be a breeze for him.

But he's got to worry about pesky ass wing defenders encroaching on his space when he posts up and fouling him. He's got to worry about guarding the high PnR to stop guards shooting 3s. That's what takes it out of him, as it would any other big man.
Now let's ask him to bang bodies with Shaq or Ewing, or deal with Dream or D.Rob's power, skill and athleticism and still put up insane numbers on offense.
Shaq and Ewing would tap out by halftime having to cover all the space on defense, and then have to worry about Jokic running the offense from the top.
Dream's career is so romanticized to the point that a lot of folks forget he constantly came up short in the postseason because he lacked game awareness and constantly got into foul trouble - he was far from a perfect player, and a lot of his foibles have been forgotten about over time. He would fail coming up against someone like Jokic more times than not.

DRob would probably be the best player of the bunch to give him problems (on both ends), but then again, he was primarily a face-up player who wasn't exactly reliable in a playoff environment.

Again, I must stress, it's less about the actual 1v1 player in this scernario, and more about the help they have and what they can do on offense to tire him out. Because Jokic could hold his own against any great big in a series.
 
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This lame ass argument was already destroyed before...:skip:



Clyde, Dumars, Reggie and Richmond are HOF'ers nicca. Jordan faced them in their primes.



Name ONE center other than Embiid in Jokic's era that's a HOF player...that's what I thought.
First of all, time has benefited players from the past when it comes to being in the HOF. The competition that Jokic is currently playing against haven't had time to carve out careers to be enlisted in the HOF.

- Jordan faced Reggie once in the playoffs
- Jordan faced Clyde once in the playoffs
- Jordan never faced Richmond in the playoffs.

The only player that MJ was facing in the playoffs regularly during his career, in that capacity, was Dumars, and despite him being a good player (on both ends), he wasn't looked at as a true star. He wasn't even on KAT's level as a scorer. Most of the players you mentioned never stood in the way of MJ winning, because they weren't his peers, much less treated as superstars*.

AD is a better player than all of them, in relation, and Jokic has completely dominated him when the scales were even. Go figure.

He's had performances like this in the playoffs going up against a 4x DPOY big -


By the time that Jokic's career comes to a close, he would've faced far greater competition in the playoffs at his position than MJ ever did.

:hubie:
 

Marc Spector

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Also his terrible defense isn't talked about NEARLY ENOUGH


I like Joker but the near universal glazing of him annoys me.

We find reasons to hate on certain players ALSO put up AMAZING numbers consistently but if you talk about Joker people pearl clutch
:snoop:
Nobody talks about it because The Nuggets arent losing playoff series because of Jokics defense . The Nuggets historically lose because nobody else other than Jokić shows up either due to health, inconsistent play, or the thin bench they have post championship. :unimpressed:

Y’all create these weird narratives that a top three NBA player should have no weaknesses in their game. Jokić is not a strong defender but what he does give in defense coupled with his offensive output makes him the best player in league rn. His size alone makes him more of a defensive presence than someone like Luka or a outright liability like Donovan Mitchell (and i love Spida).
 
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