INTERESTING STAT IN KOBE VS. JORDAN DEBATE.

[FlexPavilion]

HAVING NO L'S IN THE FINALS IS NOT THE BEST WAY TO MEASURE GREATNESS....THAT MEANS THAT 9 OUTTA THE 15 OF YEARS THAT MJ WAS IN THE LEAGUE, HE WASNT EVEN GOOD ENOUGH TO MAKE FINALS. NOT TO MENTION, ONCE HE HIT HIS PRIME, HE HAD PIPPEN BY HIS SIDE THE ENTIRE TIME, WHICH MANY CONSIDERED THE SECOND BEST ALL-AROUND PLAYER IN THE NBA. SO LIKE I SAID BEFORE, IT'S ALL CIRCUMSTANTIAL.

I disagree, having zero L's is the perfect measure of greatness. When it mattered the most, nothing stopped him (not even the flu). He was finals MVP all 6 times. Winning 6 titles in a 15 year career is 40% championships. No other all-time great since the recent era (80s til now) has that stat.

You make some good points, but errbody know is GOAT. Kobe is a distant second.

 

[FlexPavilion]

I disagree, having zero L's is the perfect measure of greatness. When it mattered the most, nothing stopped him (not even the flu). He was finals MVP all 6 times. Winning 6 titles in a 15 year career is 40% championships. No other all-time great since the recent era (80s til now) has that stat.

You make some good points, but errbody know is GOAT. Kobe is a distant second.

 

[7Dyce7]

You had a better chance of arguing that Lebron is a better "basketball player" than MJ. Basketball is more than just offense and your whole "without a doubt more skilled" is way off. If Kobe was better, or even arguably better, he would have more than one league MVP, at least one defensive player of the year award, and would have a higher career field goal percentage.

If Kobe had more "skill" why is his career FG% lower?

You do realize that lebron doesn't have half the basketball skills that players like Jordan and Kobe have? Lebron cannot even making proper basketball cuts and set the right picks when they don't have set plays, all he does is call for high screens, that's not called skills.


Again, skill and talent isn't solely evaluated from stats, not a single coach, player, or scout does that.

Kobe's percentages and shot volume indicates he shot more difficult shots than Jordan, and despite the higher degree of difficulty, he managed to average only 1 more missed field goal per game.

His efficiency is almost identical to Jordan's, you just have a hard time comprehending numbers in a basketball context.


And no, after the rape allegations, mvp award collecting was over for Kobe,

On top of that, media members don't even like Kobe.

That's what the mvp award is about these days, having a good team and having a personality that sucks media dikks

 

[Sccit]

I disagree, having zero L's is the perfect measure of greatness. When it mattered the most, nothing stopped him (not even the flu). He was finals MVP all 6 times. Winning 6 titles in a 15 year career is 40% championships. No other all-time great since the recent era (80s til now) has that stat.

You make some good points, but errbody know is GOAT. Kobe is a distant second.

SO IN ESSENCE, HIM LOSING IN THE 3RD ROUND AND NOT MAKING FINALS IS MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN IF HE ADVANCED PAST THE 3RD ROUND AND LOST IN THE FINALS?

I MEAN, U GIVE KOBE A PRIME PIPPEN IN '04 AND '08 AND HE'S 7/7 .. CIRCUMSTANTIAL BRUH.

 

[FlexPavilion]

You do realize that lebron doesn't have half the basketball skills that players like Jordan and Kobe have? Lebron cannot even making proper basketball cuts and set the right picks when they don't have set plays, all he does is call for high screens, that's not called skills.


Again, skill and talent isn't solely evaluated from stats, not a single coach, player, or scout does that.

Kobe's percentages and shot volume indicates he shot more difficult shots than Jordan, and despite the higher degree of difficulty, he managed to average only 1 more missed field goal per game.

His efficiency is almost identical to Jordan's, you just have a hard time comprehending numbers in a basketball context.


And no, after the rape allegations, mvp award collecting was over for Kobe,

On top of that, media members don't even like Kobe.

That's what the mvp award is about these days, having a good team and having a personality that sucks media dikks

Once again, you're assuming basketball is just about scoring points and shooting jumpshots in the gym. Lebron does not have the same offensive skills as MJ or Kobe, but he is a better passer and rebounder. Lebron is also a better defender than Kobe. What Lebron doesn't have is the killer instinct and heart like MJ and Kobe.

Basketball is more than jumpshots. You just have a hard time comprehending basketball in a basketball context.

 

[Lord_Chief_Rocka]

Jordan couldnt average 30ppg today

 

[FlexPavilion]

SO IN ESSENCE, HIM LOSING IN THE 3RD ROUND AND NOT MAKING FINALS IS MORE IMPRESSIVE THAN IF HE ADVANCED PAST THE 3RD ROUND AND LOST IN THE FINALS?

I MEAN, U GIVE KOBE A PRIME PIPPEN IN '04 AND '08 AND HE'S 7/7 .. CIRCUMSTANTIAL BRUH.

Yeah if you're losing to some of the greatest teams in history and you eventually knock them off the top. Even if Magic wasn't forced to retire he would've caught consecutive L's. Kobe lost on a team with 4 hall of famers in the starting line-up to a "weak" East team.

 

[Kobe24]

I disagree, having zero L's is the perfect measure of greatness. When it mattered the most, nothing stopped him (not even the flu). He was finals MVP all 6 times. Winning 6 titles in a 15 year career is 40% championships. No other all-time great since the recent era (80s til now) has that stat.

You make some good points, but errbody know is GOAT. Kobe is a distant second.

He didn't have the flu he was hungover

 

[Johnny Vulture]

ANY1 WHO CALLS KOBE SIDEKICK SHOULD GET THEIR B-BALL PASS AUTOMATICALLY REVOKED

AT LEAST SUSPENDED FROM WATCHING GAMES FOR A YEAR

Kobe was a sidekick when he won 3 of his 5 rings

 

[Luke Cage]

JORDAN WAS SO DOMINANT IN THE 80S THAT HE NEVER WON A RING.....HE WAS GREAT, BUT NOT YET DOMINANT. DOMINATING MEANS U WIN.

Jordan has more finals wins than Kobe

 

[Samori Toure]

the total points scored in the league is one way to look at it, but jordan still averaged more points per possession and the no.2 scorer in 86-87 was 8.1 ppg behind jordan while the no.2 and no.3 scorers in 05-06 were within 4 points of kobe.

still an all time great scoring season by kobe that may not be matched anytime soon.

It won't be matched anytime soon, because unlike Kobe; the current players don't hog the ball.

 

[FlexPavilion]

He didn't have the flu he was hungover

Actually, he was food poisoned by a Utah pizza place. He had a stomach flu

Michael Jordan was poisoned before flu game, says trainer

 

[Samori Toure]

JORDAN DIDNT FACE THE DEFENDERS AND INTRICATE DEFENSIVE SCHEMES OF TODAY THAT KOBE DID.. HE WAS USUALLY BEIN GUARDED BY THE LIKES OF CRAIG EHLO, HERSEY HAWKINS, JEFF HORNACEK. DIFFERENT ERA, DIFFERENT GAME.

So you never heard of the "Jordan Rules"? That was a whole defensive scheme designed for one player. The Pistons and later on the Knicks used that scheme to stop 1 player. Some of you Kobe fans never saw the NBA that Jordan played in. That league was physical as Hell. Jordan was getting mauled by guys like Rodman. Kobe couldn't even handle a dude named Tayshaun Prince.

Btw, Jordan was also being guarded by guys like Joe Dumars, Ron Harper (in his prime) Dennis Rodman and Dennis Johnson. Some of those guys were all league defensively.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I was about to start arguing, but I ain't even gonna start throwing out pearls before swine.

In lieu of arguing against what ya'all have been posting, I'll just make three points.

* On a strategic level, defense was horrific in the 1980s. Players on most teams weren't even taught how to switch. Larry Bird has said that guys didn't even guard the three until the final 5 minutes of games. Zone defenses were illegal. Defensive strategy in the 1980s was awful, and as a result, scoring was easier. It only improved marginally in the 1990s.

* On an effort level, defense was awful in the 1980s. Go back and watch a full regular season game, and its ridiculous how little players cared about defense. Even in playoff games, and even into the 1990s, defensive effort for the first 3 quarters was light years behind what it is now. That's one reason the injuries are so bad in today's era - we're seeing for the first time what happens to NBA bodies when they're actually forced to play hard on both ends of the court for 35 minutes/game.

* Neither of those facts mean that someone is a great player just because they scored a lot of points on low-% volume shooting in a more defensively competent era.



(And I'm done with this thread. But go ahead and bring up "Jordan rules", a prehistoric strategy - in comparison to today's defenses - that 1 team used in the playoffs. Then watch Jordan's 6 NBA finals and show me where anyone was doing anything like that for 48 minutes/game. Not to mention 95% of the regular season.)

 

[7Dyce7]

Once again, you're assuming basketball is just about scoring points and shooting jumpshots in the gym. Lebron does not have the same offensive skills as MJ or Kobe, but he is a better passer and rebounder. Lebron is also a better defender than Kobe. What Lebron doesn't have is the killer instinct and heart like MJ and Kobe.

Basketball is more than jumpshots. You just have a hard time comprehending basketball in a basketball context.

Yes, basketball is more than scoring and shooting, it's also about making teammates better, making the right passes (not an assist) and plays, communication etc. there are so many components involved in basketball, and the only one that lebron is better in is rebounding, literally that's it.

Lebron is a better defender than Kobe? I don't think so, lebron is literally an average on ball defender, meanwhile Kobe has locked down offensive juggernauts in his young days and old age.

No one in the history of sports will say that lebron is a better defender than Kobe



Nice cop out there bro, you know I've won when you have to resort to using my statements without even being able to make your point.