So much hilarious trash in this thread
The only hilarious trash is coming from Spurs fans that are letting their homerism blind their view of reality.
You point at Manu and Parker shooting percentage but don't mention how Parker spent most of his time playing with Duncan since they both start so when he gets around the freethrow line no one would do much to challenge his shot for fear of Tim Duncan getting an easy putback...
with this bullshyt.
First you said -
"
Parker spent the 1st half of his career not being able to make a shot outside of 12 feet...as good as he is now lets not act like teams went years packing the paint against him like he was 7 foot and letting hims shoot brick after brick after brick...
So Prime Manu was playing with a young point guard who couldn't shoot"
You were proven wrong, now you're moving the goalposts on some spurious shyt that didn't take place. I'l post the mid-range numbers again, since you didn't get the memo the first time around, and not this nonsense you're talking about when Parker gets around the free throw line players don't attempt to block his shot - these are numbers from the MID-RANGE -
Parker was hitting 36% on midrange jumpers (308 attempts) and Ginobili was hitting 24% on jumpers (37 attempts) in 2002/2003
Parker was hitting 36% on midrange jumpers (302 attempts) and Ginobili was hitting 33% on jumpers (86 attempts) in 2003/2004
Parker was hitting 40% on midrange jumpers (345 attempts) and Ginobili was hitting 28% on jumpers (71 attempts) in 2004/2005
Stop digging that hole and just admit you fukked up trying to lie and got your card pulled because you didn't think somebody would go all the way up to the mid-2000s and give you the quantity of jumpshots and percentages of both players. You may be able to pull that shyt with other dudes on this board but not me.
meanwhile manu is coming off the bench leading the second unit and he has to do everything...he had to create all the shots...he had to take all the tough shots...he had to guard at least the second best perimeter player...and he had to do all of this during stretched where Malik Rose and Samake Walker and Kevin Willis are his big men...
That's a two-way street, if he's leading the second unit, then he's playing against teams' benches and not against starters. And you can GTFOH acting like all Manu did was play with the second unit and not have consistent minutes with Duncan and Parker too. I see that shyt you're tryna pull like he was dragging Walker and Willis game-in, game-out with no help from anybody else or he hardly ever played with better players on some lone ranger type shyt.
These are all the five-man units over the first half of his career -
As you can see, Ginobili played heavy minutes with Parker and Duncan throughout the first six seasons of his career, and wasn't solely just playing with the second unit.
WHEN ARE YOU GOIN TO STOP LYIN nikka.
You point out the shooting percentages between the two but I see you conveniently left out free throws percentages where Tony had several seasons where he just barely shot 70%...shot 65% one season...where as Manu has shot below 80% for his rookie year and has been an 80 - 85% guy every since...maybe free throws are not important to you but at the guard position they are VERY important to me and since guards are the ones shooting free throws at the end of tight games shooting in the 70's and high 60's is a very dicey situation...
You can't be serious? First of all you claim that "
Parker spent the 1st half of his career not being able to make a shot outside of 12 feet...as good as he is now lets not act like teams went years packing the paint against him like he was 7 foot and letting hims shoot brick after brick after brick... So Prime Manu was playing with a young point guard who couldn't shoot" - when it was Ginobili that had the worse shooting percentages out of the two, now you're grasping at straws by bringing up free-throw percentage.
Like I said before, stop digging that hole.
So if I take your numbers...my starting point guard is shooting in the mid to high 40's...
but he is shooting in the 30's on what you call a "jumper"...
meaning that his field goal percentage is being carried by the fact that he is getting to the rim at a borderline astonishing rate...but then when the game get's tight and he starts getting fouled and he has to go to the line in those first three years he is making on average 75%...70%...65% of his free throws...
Nope, you're not gonna pull that shyt on me. Parker's midrange jumper percentages were 36%, 36% and 40% during those first three seasons - don't try and generalize his percentages by lowering them all the way done to 30%. The FG% isn't getting carried by the fact he's getting to the rim, he took over 300 attempts in the midrange in each of those seasons - that's around 30% of his total field goals, then you add in the 199 three-pointers he took over each of those seasons and that's close to half his total shot attempts were he's attempting from the mid-range and beyond.
Don't make it seem as though he's taking a large amount of his shots in the paint.
You're speaking as if his lower FT% actually had a significant impact on the game -
2002/2003 - 2.7 makes out of 3.5 free throw attempts - 75%
2003/2004 - 2.5 makes out of 3.7 free throw attempts - 70%
2004/2005 - 2.6 makes out of 4.0 free throw attempts - 65%
His attempts are so low, that even a few misses across an entire season can drastically alter the percentage.
This is what his free throw percentages would look like if he shot at 80% -
2002/2003 - 3.5 free throw attempts - 80% - only a difference of 10 free throws across the entire season (0.1 of a point Parker cost his team each game by not shooting 80% on free throws)
2003/2004 - 3.7 free throw attempts - 80% - only a difference of 27 free throws across the entire season (0.3 of a point Parker cost his team each game by not shooting 80% on free throws)
2004/2005 - 4.0 free throw attempts - 80% - only a difference of 37 free throws across the season (0.4 of a point Parker cost his team each game by not shooting 80% on free throws)
Like I said, it's wasn't some great injustice to their team success in the grand scheme of things.
We don't wanna get into how much points Ginobili left on the board from all his missed jumpers now do we?
In 2004 - 05...I'd do better letting my Mr Everything 7 footer shoot clutch free throws since he is making them at a higher clip than my starting point guard who you are telling me is my 2nd most important player?
My second most important player is shooting in the 30's for jumpers and in the 60's at the line...and he is a point guard
at you lowering the percentages for the sake of your argument.
He shot 65% once in that three-season stretch and like I said it was only a difference of 37 missed free across the season - 0.4 of a point each game. And shooting 37%, 34% and 36% on jump shots is above the league average for players that attempt 800+ jumpers and even higher for PGs - again you fail to knowledge his mid-range percentages were among the best in the league. He actually shot better than Carmelo from mid-range during that stretch.
Whether you want to acknowledge it or not, Parker was the #2 option.
Reggie and Ray should have put up those numbers...they were the focal points of their offense for damn near two decades...and I have seen enough of Manu to say that if you made him the focal point of an offense for 36 minutes a night he could average 21 - 26 points a season...would he get it by being a dead eye shooting specialist like Reggie and Ray...nope...but he would get it...your not going to post anything to change my mind here...I've watched the dude play ball to long...
Based on what?
Not only would his body not be able to handle playing 35-40 minutes over a season for entire decade and more but he never had the talent to pull that shyt off. If he can't shoot like Reggie and Ray, how the hell was his body going to handle taking more contact by taking more inside shots than they did? He can't even stay healthy with a limited offensive load on less minutes, how the fukk would he be able to play heavy minutes as well as an increase in work load?
He'd never last. He might be able to put up a few seasons, but over a decade? 0% chance.
He's been dealing with injuries for his entire NBA career while only averaging 27 minutes a game.
Where would he get his points from, since he isn't a great shooter from anywhere on the court?
And every since the year after he won in boston Ray hasn't done shyt but run around screens and shoot 3's...so if you are going to tell me Ray been in the league for 19 seasons I am going to tell you he spent the last 6 being a spot up shooter...
He's only spent 3-4 seasons being a spot up shooter. The first four seasons Allen spent in Boston he could still create his own shot on the regular and drive too. Regardless he still had over a decade playing as the #1 option. Ginobili has never been the #1 option. Not even once. This isn't even an argument. Player rankings aren't based on hypothetical sketches, so there's no point in even suggesting what Ginobili could have done if he was the #1 option of a team. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
ol' that nikka up North is better than Jordan ass nikka.
You going to tell me well Ray had to carry teams early in his career I am going to ask you..."So what was Manu doing from 1995 to 2002?".
From 1995-1999 he was in lower leagues and playing in Serie A2 (Italian second division). From then he went to have success in Serie A1 winning a few MVPs and had great team success over those few seasons until he went to SA.
I fail to see how that has any relevance to what Ray Allen was doing, as if leading a team in the Italian league is anything like leading an NBA team.
You point to me being selective with names so I tell you what..
.for every 4 players I post that Manu played with that didn't make an all star team you post 1 player that did and we will see who runs out of names first...I will be generous and even let you have the obvious players that made all star games because if I don't do that we won't even get 3 rounds into this...after I post the 3rd set of 4 players you won't be able to post another all star player...
That list if random players I posted was the best of the best...I could easily pull out the Sean Marks and Mike Wilks of the world
You do realize that you can apply that logic to every star player that's ever played in the league right (for as long as All-Star selections have existed)? Every star player plays with scrubs throughout his career, why do you think this only applies to Manu? This is some basic ass shyt. Regardless, this doesn't negate the fact that Ginobili has been he third option for most of his NBA career.
Stop talking as if he's been the Robin to Duncan's Batman for his entire career. Even Spurs fans will tell you that Parker was the #2 option.
