Is hip-hop the only genre where you have to take care of grown men and woman after THEY fukk up?

[The Devil's Advocate]

thats another big problem in hiphop. IS that EVERYONE thinks they are owed something. too many rappers get in the game and just don't understand the business. they think that because they recorded a bunch of songs that they are just owed something.


However, I do agree with your next point. If the label and doing anything with you they should let you go.
But at the same time, if they invested alot of money in your first project(for example) and then your next project comes up short...and you still owe them. They have no obligation to let you go to make more money for someone else.

What htey should do though, is allow you to move on, with stipulations that you are still required to pay back the money that you owe.

i really started understanding this from puff


during the let the lox go campaign

now it's hard to find quotes from shyt from source.. but this hit hard to me cause i watched bad boy fall apart



he basically said.........



why am i looked at as a snake.. .or a bad man... i got these dudes under contract.. i got 112, i got faith... and if you don't want to be on bad boy, i'll let you go... yes i want to be paid or get points on your next records... but i'll let you go

you go to (and yes he named them) jimmy iovine, you go to clive davis... they won't even pick up your call if you pull that shyt... they not gonna let you go.. you signed a contract, they gonna keep you.. and starve you until you come up with that money... but i'll just let you go... 3 groups, all plat, and i just let them go.... name another label owner who did that.. but i'm a black man, so i'm expected to do that. i'm looked at as a devil.. but these white guys out here doing the same thing and not letting people go for nothing, and nobody says shyt











and he's right.... and you're right.... these labels ain't letting nikkas go... fukk that.. you owe us.. you gonna pay us

artists simply don't know law, contracts, and business... you know that cause they tweet about a meeting, then tweet about signing... all in the same day... how much reading, translating and negotiating can go on in 8 hours?? i've spent longer time trying to figure out what car to buy

 

[wizworld]

Yes.

I keep trying to say a lot of rappers have peter pan syndrome and seem to not understand business or the industry and that's why alot of rappers stay broke and in deb up to their knees then calling out so and so in an interview and saying they didn't give back or hold their hand when they're a fukking adult.

A lot of aspiring celebs have peter pan syndrome, period. But yeah it's ends up worse when you come from nothing & you don't have the guidance, business acumen, or connections to make it by yourself. Yeah these guys are adults, but they didn't have good upbringings and unfortunately the guy that was going to/tried to put them on may have been the only truly positive light in their life.

 

[wizworld]

this definitely happens in other genres. However I think it is more prevalent in hiphop just based off the fact that the rap game is just so much easier to get in the game.

Lets be real, out of all the genres of music rap, BY FAR requires the least amount of talent/skill.
which allows tons of ppl that chance to get in the game, and ultimately to be eaten up, and spit out and milked of any money that they have or can earn.

This is incorrect. What is correct, is that rap by far has easiest point of entry. You don't have to purchase and instrument, join a band etc. In the 90's you could just stand on the street and rap, and if you were that good eventually somebody would find you. Now all you need is a mic, a computer & a camera and you can enter the rap game.

 

[Maschine_Man]

This is incorrect. What is correct, is that rap by far has easiest point of entry. You don't have to purchase and instrument, join a band etc. In the 90's you could just stand on the street and rap, and if you were that good eventually somebody would find you. Now all you need is a mic, a computer & a camera and you can enter the rap game.

agreed, you basically agreeing with what I've been saying throughout.

you don't even NEED to be a great writer or rapper to get in the game. As long as you have the right image and can copy/imitate the next hottest dude then you will have a chance to get in.

Can't do that with other genres....as easily

 

[zerozero]

An obvious point nobody brought up is that a lot of rap groups and cliques don't act like it's just business, when it is when it comes down to it.

If you're on record saying you'll take a bullet for a breh and you're on tour with that breh and acting like it's all friendly... then the breh might get the wrong idea

It's not just a rap thing.. it's a general business thing too. Being friends can help you work together but at the end of the day, this is business. You gotta remember that.

 

[Insensitive]

Bruh, THAT alone makes it one step harder than just becoming a rapper.

You think just picking up a guitar and learning a few chords is all you need?

uhhh YES, IT IS.

You can't tell me about this guitar shyt breh :

I'm really about that music life.
I can read sheet music as well as tabs and I've got a healthy vocabulary of chords memorized.
You'd probably chuckle at how simple a lot of classics are in Rock,Punk, R&B, Hip-Hop etc.
This doesn't diminish how well put together they are or their power to hit a person emotionally.


*The pictures are blurry because I took them in a hurry but as you can see, I can write AND notate
my own music if choose too.

Writing the music, AND writing the lyrics, is already way more work than just becoming a rapper.


see you are making this more than what it is. There is definitely a difference between a rapper/writer like Nas or Eminem and a rapper like Soulja boy or Stitches.

You aren't telling me anything I haven't said already :

I completely disagree with the idea
that Hip-Hop rap takes the "Least amount of talent/skill" it can be as complex and difficult as the rapper wants it to be just as any other genre.

There's bonehead simple rap then there's rap that's musically right up there with just about
any other genre and Hip-Hop DOES NOT have to have Samples either.

But the point remains, you don't even NEED to be a good writer to get put on in hiphop. but you NEED to at least know how to play guitar and know basic musi ctheory before you can play metal(as per your example)

You don't have to know much theory to play any relatively popular music genre.

One of my absolute favorite metal bands is mastodon and the musicians have immense chops
but they've admitted they know next to nothing about music theory.
Having amazing ears, great chops and knowing a few good chords can bring you a LONG way .
*NOTE : I am NOT saying that it's "EASY" because some of the best music has a
great deal of time put into it.

R&B you need to know how to sing, you need to have some kind of vocal talent
rock, R&B, country, even the majority of disney pop acts have to know basic music, and singing.

R&B level of vocal talent on average >>>>>> Rock
And while I'm at it, every single one of those genres has fallen victim to the dreaded autotune
So YES, if you've got the right studio wizardry you can skirt being a good singer.
However, I prefer someone with great vocal talent because I sing myself

I know everyone wants to make rap seem like its so difficult so they can be in this exclusive club, but the facts show otherwise.

You aren't presenting all of the "Facts".
Kedrick Lamar's last album has considerably more musicality than your average
Rock album especially if it's pop rock.
As I said, the music can be as complex as the artist wants it to be.
It can be as simple as soulja boy where they repeat the same four bars and the
harmony is static with a three note melody repeating OR it can be a song that changes key
multiple times with a great use of melody like some of the records on TPAB.

There ARE great rappers, and there are some great writers that just can't be duplicated.

but there are WAY more average-below average rappers in the game that are getting put on.

You can literally replace "Rappers" with "Singers" or "Guitarists" and this would still hold u p.

Rap music is sold on image more than ANY other type of music. lots of Talent is not necessarily a pre-req to be a rap

ALL POPULAR MUSIC IS SOLD ON IMAGE.
People want to dress and embody the images they find endearing.
There are metal dudes with long hair and a wardrobe with entirely too much black
just like there are Hip-Hop heads wearing skinny jeans and trying to get their
hands on a hoverboard.

 

[Maschine_Man]

uhhh YES, IT IS.

You can't tell me about this guitar shyt breh :

I'm really about that music life.
I can read sheet music as well as tabs and I've got a healthy vocabulary of chords memorized.
You'd probably chuckle at how simple a lot of classics are in Rock,Punk, R&B, Hip-Hop etc.
This doesn't diminish how well put together they are or their power to hit a person emotionally.


*The pictures are blurry because I took them in a hurry but as you can see, I can write AND notate
my own music if choose too.


You aren't telling me anything I haven't said already :

I completely disagree with the idea
that Hip-Hop rap takes the "Least amount of talent/skill" it can be as complex and difficult as the rapper wants it to be just as any other genre.

There's bonehead simple rap then there's rap that's musically right up there with just about
any other genre and Hip-Hop DOES NOT have to have Samples either.


You don't have to know much theory to play any relatively popular music genre.

One of my absolute favorite metal bands is mastodon and the musicians have immense chops
but they've admitted they know next to nothing about music theory.
Having amazing ears, great chops and knowing a few good chords can bring you a LONG way .
*NOTE : I am NOT saying that it's "EASY" because some of the best music has a
great deal of time put into it.


R&B level of vocal talent on average >>>>>> Rock
And while I'm at it, every single one of those genres has fallen victim to the dreaded autotune
So YES, if you've got the right studio wizardry you can skirt being a good singer.
However, I prefer someone with great vocal talent I sing myself




You aren't presenting all of the "Facts".
Kedrick Lamar's last album has considerably more musicality than your average
Rock album especially if it's pop rock.
As I said, the music can be as complex as the artist wants it to be.
It can be as simple as soulja boy where they repeat the same four bars and the
harmony is static with a three note melody repeating OR it can be a song that changes key
multiple times with a great use of melody like some of the records on TPAB.



You can literally replace "Rappers" with "Singers" or "Guitarists" and this would still hold u p.


ALL POPULAR MUSIC IS SOLD ON IMAGE.
People want to dress and embody the images they find endearing.
There are metal dudes with long hair and a wardrobe with entirely too much black
just like there are Hip-Hop heads wearing skinny jeans and trying to get their
hands on a hoverboard.

you ain't getting it bruh. I ain't gonna write out a whole thesis just to explain it to you either.
I know the majority of music is basically simple chords and progressions. that isn't the point though, thats only part of it.

you STILL need to put those hours in just to learn those chords. Just to learn those progressions. I know this, I play piano AND guitar bruh. I am a musician. I am also a DJ/Turntablist. I've put in WORK, plenty of hours trying to hone my craft.

Just knowing how to play simple chords and progressions is still more talent than the majority of these so called rappers have.
and that is just the skill it takes to PLAY a guitar or piano or any instrument, let alone actually write a song with one.

as for Kendrick lamar......yes that album, and many other great albums have tons of musicality, I'm not saying hiphop music doesn't take alot of talent and skill. I'm saying rapping itself doesn't necessarily take alot of talent and skill.

but the truth is, the majority of talent and skill is on the production side of it. YES there are amazing writers. And they stand out amongst the rest. But there are so many bad rappers that are in the game with little to no talent at all.

 

[Insensitive]

you ain't getting it bruh. I ain't gonna write out a whole thesis just to explain it to you either.
I know the majority of music is basically simple chords and progressions. that isn't the point though, thats only part of it.

I get what you're saying, I just disagree.

you STILL need to put those hours in just to learn those chords. Just to learn those progressions. I know this, I play piano AND guitar bruh. I am a musician. I am also a DJ/Turntablist. I've put in WORK, plenty of hours trying to hone my craft.

Unless we're talking about soloing over 2-5-1's and learning which notes go harmonically with which
or how to play music at 200BPM's then it really isn't that difficult to learn.
Someone could be a "Punk" musician with an afternoon of learning.
Teach them few a open string chords, some power chords and they're off.
They wouldn't be the best musician or anything but they'd be a "Punk Rock Guitarist".

With that said, I believe honing your craft to a high level in ANYTHING takes TIME.
And as a person who is a rapper as well as a guitarist, I think I have a pretty damn good idea of just how
much skill it takes to write lyrics as well as rap them versus learning the major and minor scales,
recognizing key signatures, being able to read and play out rhythms etc.

Just knowing how to play simple chords and progressions is still more talent than the majority of these so called rappers have.
and that is just the skill it takes to PLAY a guitar or piano or any instrument, let alone actually write a song with one.

No, it isn't. I completely disagree with that.
Learning how to do a I-IV-V progression in an afternoon opens you up to literally thousands of songs
songs to play and it's so simple just about anyone can do it. Hell that same person could take
those same chords, change the melody around, write some new lyrics and they could call themselves
"song writers".
HOWEVER sitting down with a pen and pad and writing lyrics day in and day out while developing your
sense of time and rhythm can be just as time consuming, there's also no rule saying a person can't
learn to rap AND learn to play an instrument.

as for Kendrick lamar......yes that album, and many other great albums have tons of musicality, I'm not saying hiphop music doesn't take alot of talent and skill. I'm saying rapping itself doesn't necessarily take alot of talent and skill.

And that's where we disagree, I feel rapping takes talent and when it's delivered
as a complete package in Hip-Hop music, it can lead to some really great music
with that said like any other genre of music it can also be boring, derivative bullshyt
that takes no talent to put together.
This however is not unique to Hip-Hop, all types of music take varying levels of skill
and I listen to a few rappers who are also talented in other aspects of music.
As in they produce, play multiple instruments etc.

but the truth is, the majority of talent and skill is on the production side of it. YES there are amazing writers. And they stand out amongst the rest. But there are so many bad rappers that are in the game with little to no talent at all.

That's a half truth, Rapping isn't jut "writing", it's a particular vocal technique that's continued to
develop and change over the past 40 years or so.
Kurtis Blow raps differently from Rakim who raps differently from G. Rap who
raps different from Jay-Z etc.

No one wakes up with the breath control of Nas or Big Pun.
No one wakes up with an understanding of pocket and an emphasis on
rhythm like Jay-Z or Eminem.
No one wakes up and thinks of interesting album long concepts like
Kendrick Lamar or Wale.

These are specific skills and ideas the artist has to develop themselves.
If it were easy to be "Great" everyone would be.

 

[Maschine_Man]

I get what you're saying, I just disagree.


Unless we're talking about soloing over 2-5-1's and learning which notes go harmonically with which
or how to play music at 200BPM's then it really isn't that difficult to learn.
Someone could be a "Punk" musician with an afternoon of learning.
Teach them few a open string chords, some power chords and they're off.
They wouldn't be the best musician or anything but they'd be a "Punk Rock Guitarist".

I have NEVER ever, in my lifetime of music seen ANYONE that could pick up any instrument and be able to play it in one day. EVER. I have however seen basic guitar players learn new chords and progressions ina day, but thats already after having even a simple base already.


With that said, I believe honing your craft to a high level in ANYTHING takes TIME.
And as a person who is a rapper as well as a guitarist, I think I have a pretty damn good idea of just how
much skill it takes to write lyrics as well as rap them versus learning the major and minor scales,
recognizing key signatures, being able to read and play out rhythms etc.

See, I think you got me wrong. I am NOT saying that rapping is something that doesn't take talent. I'm saying that to be put on in the game you don't need to have much talent to get on. there is a difference. There are dudes that take rapping very seriously and put lots of time and effort in to their music. BUt there are tons more that do not. and hiphop (the way it is now especially) allows you to get away without having to be a great writer. As long as you have a dope producer the rapping is meh.


No, it isn't. I completely disagree with that.
Learning how to do a I-IV-V progression in an afternoon opens you up to literally thousands of songs
songs to play and it's so simple just about anyone can do it. Hell that same person could take
those same chords, change the melody around, write some new lyrics and they could call themselves
"song writers".
HOWEVER sitting down with a pen and pad and writing lyrics day in and day out while developing your
sense of time and rhythm can be just as time consuming, there's also no rule saying a person can't
learn to rap AND learn to play an instrument.

Again, it is virtually unheard of for someone to pickup a guitar after never ever playing one in their life to be able to even strum out basic progressions, to a time. Then on top of that be able to write out a song on that guitar. I know even rock music nowadays has gotten alot simpler(less bridges/change ups, hardly any guitar solos.etc) but even the basics take something to be at least proficient in it.



And that's where we disagree, I feel rapping takes talent and when it's delivered
as a complete package in Hip-Hop music, it can lead to some really great music
with that said like any other genre of music it can also be boring, derivative bullshyt
that takes no talent to put together.
This however is not unique to Hip-Hop, all types of music take varying levels of skill
and I listen to a few rappers who are also talented in other aspects of music.
As in they produce, play multiple instruments etc.

Again, I am not talking about every rapper. I'm saying....look at the basic requirements...the minimum to get in to this game. and you can see that basic ABC rap can be successful. I mean you have old white ppl and 3 year old kids rapping nowadays.

That's a half truth, Rapping isn't jut "writing", it's a particular vocal technique that's continued to
develop and change over the past 40 years or so.
Kurtis Blow raps differently from Rakim who raps differently from G. Rap who
raps different from Jay-Z etc.

bruh, again I AGREE WITH YOU. But I'm saying...the minimum requirements to get in the game are a whole lot easier in rap than it is in most other genres

No one wakes up with the breath control of Nas or Big Pun.
No one wakes up with an understanding of pocket and an emphasis on
rhythm like Jay-Z or Eminem.
No one wakes up and thinks of interesting album long concepts like
Kendrick Lamar or Wale.

And those rappers are on another level, but just because they are rappers doesn't make the the same as soulja boy or chief keef or one of the many many other simple rappers.
it doesn't take much skill to make a song like this

now if you think that is great...well then maybe we can just stop this back and forth now.

Now compare that song...to this


not even fukkin close...but they are both rap/hiphop right? see I'm talking bout the bottom 3rd you are talking about the top 3rd


These are specific skills and ideas the artist has to develop themselves.
If it were easy to be "Great" everyone would be.

We aren't talking about greatness though, we are talking about the fact that it is easier to become a rapper in the game then it is for any other genre.

 

[Insensitive]

I have NEVER ever, in my lifetime of music seen ANYONE that could pick up any instrument and be able to play it in one day. EVER. I have however seen basic guitar players learn new chords and progressions ina day, but thats already after having even a simple base already.

Being a "basic guitar player" is playing the instrument.
And most music doesn't take much more than the basics.

See, I think you got me wrong. I am NOT saying that rapping is something that doesn't take talent. I'm saying that to be put on in the game you don't need to have much talent to get on. there is a difference. There are dudes that take rapping very seriously and put lots of time and effort in to their music. BUt there are tons more that do not. and hiphop (the way it is now especially) allows you to get away without having to be a great writer. As long as you have a dope producer the rapping is meh.

You're looking at this PURELY from a Hip-Hop perspective.
There are bands who are utterly shyt that need backing tracks to sound decent live.
There are pop stars who lip sing or use autotune extensively when they're performing live.
There are people who literally have no talent whatsoever and are the directly result
of 20 or more other artists sculpting their sound and style.
This.
Is.
Not.
Unique.
To.
Hip-Hop.
Britney spears can't sing to save her life but she's worth MILLIONS and has MILLIONS of fans.

Again, it is virtually unheard of for someone to pickup a guitar after never ever playing one in their life to be able to even strum out basic progressions, to a time. Then on top of that be able to write out a song on that guitar. I know even rock music nowadays has gotten alot simpler(less bridges/change ups, hardly any guitar solos.etc) but even the basics take something to be at least proficient in it.

No,it isn't.
Go sit in on a "beginners" class at guitar center, you'll find the basics aren't difficult at all.
That's why they're the BASICS.
However playing the same scale in multiple positions or knowing the circle of 5th's and 4th's
or anything beyond know CMajor----> EMajor ---> GMajor takes TIME and SKILL.

Again, I am not talking about every rapper. I'm saying....look at the basic requirements...the minimum to get in to this game. and you can see that basic ABC rap can be successful. I mean you have old white ppl and 3 year old kids rapping nowadays.

Again, the same goes for the vast majority of popular music.
The barrier of entry is WAY, WAYYYY, WAAAAYYYY low for Electronic music .
This is in no way a knock to the genre.
And since when is it a "bad" thing for 3 year olds to rap or old (white) folks to rap ?

bruh, again I AGREE WITH YOU. But I'm saying...the minimum requirements to get in the game are a whole lot easier in rap than it is in most other genres

A mic can cost as much as an entry level guitar and making beats can be just as
involved as strumming along to a backing track and coming up with ideas.
"Minimum requirements" isn't saying much unless we define these things.

And those rappers are on another level, but just because they are rappers doesn't make the the same as soulja boy or chief keef or one of the many many other simple rappers.
it doesn't take much skill to make a song like this

now if you think that is great...well then maybe we can just stop this back and forth now.

Now compare that song...to this
not even fukkin close...but they are both rap/hiphop right? see I'm talking bout the bottom 3rd you are talking about the top 3rd

No, I'm talking about the middle on up.

We aren't talking about greatness though, we are talking about the fact that it is easier to become a rapper in the game then it is for any other genre.

That's bullshyt though.
If we're using these low level no talent rappers as the example of a "Rapper"
then I can also use these low level no talent having pop stars or boy bands masquerading as rock
bands.

 

[Maschine_Man]

Being a "basic guitar player" is playing the instrument.
And most music doesn't take much more than the basics.



You're looking at this PURELY from a Hip-Hop perspective.
There are bands who are utterly shyt that need backing tracks to sound decent live.
There are pop stars who lip sing or use autotune extensively when they're performing live.
There are people who literally have no talent whatsoever and are the directly result
of 20 or more other artists sculpting their sound and style.
This.
Is.
Not.
Unique.
To.
Hip-Hop.
Britney spears can't sing to save her life but she's worth MILLIONS and has MILLIONS of fans.



No,it isn't.
Go sit in on a "beginners" class at guitar center, you'll find the basics aren't difficult at all.
That's why they're the BASICS.
However playing the same scale in multiple positions or knowing the circle of 5th's and 4th's
or anything beyond know CMajor----> EMajor ---> GMajor takes TIME and SKILL.



Again, the same goes for the vast majority of popular music.
The barrier of entry is WAY, WAYYYY, WAAAAYYYY low for Electronic music .
This is in no way a knock to the genre.
And since when is it a "bad" thing for 3 year olds to rap or old (white) folks to rap ?



A mic can cost as much as an entry level guitar and making beats can be just as
involved as strumming along to a backing track and coming up with ideas.
"Minimum requirements" isn't saying much unless we define these things.


No, I'm talking about the middle on up.



That's bullshyt though.
If we're using these low level no talent rappers as the example of a "Rapper"
then I can also use these low level no talent having pop stars or boy bands masquerading as rock
bands.

Lol, you feel offended, I'm gonna stop now.

 

[Insensitive]

Lol, you feel offended, I'm gonna stop now.

I'm not offended, I just don't get how you're using some lame duck one hit
wonders as the barometer for "Hip-Hop" but somehow the genres you're comparing
it to aren't given the same low level examples.

However IF you wanna stop here, I'm fine with that.

 

[Maschine_Man]

I'm not offended, I just don't get how you're using some lame duck one hit
wonders as the barometer for "Hip-Hop" but somehow the genres you're comparing
it to aren't given the same low level examples.

However IF you wanna stop here, I'm fine with that.

She's not Adele by any means, but she can at least sing.

Same with most of those pop stars and boy bands. You just seem offended that I am just picking on hiphop.

I am not, I'm just saying that th over abundance of wack rappers just proves how easy it is to get in this game.

There are 100x more basic, simple , abc type rappers with little talent trying to get on then there are rock bands that can barely play or pop tarts that can't sing.

But....ill let you tell it.