IS IT REALLY "HARD" TO BECOME A SURGEON?

[Bubba T]

measuring fluids?

you can teach a high school grad to take apart and reassemble your plumbing system, car, construct a building, etc. but he can't measure fluids and do accurate cuts?

what prepares a science nerd college grad with no experience with anything involving manual to cut within a decimeter? nothing, you just learn to do it with practice or you just can't do it

why don't you go to a GP with a recent physics or calculus final and see if he can do half of that shyt anymore since basic sciences are so important to daily life as a doctor

You need to accurately measure fluid to a specific pH or you can injure or kill a person (if you are to inject the patient). Many people seem to underestimate this.


You also continue to compare building a machine or some other construct to operating on a human. If you can't see the difference between the two, I really don't know what else to say. Reassembling a plumbing system is not the same as making an incision .03 cm away from a nerve. Constructing a building is not the same than performing a C-section. Not even remotely close.

MDs go through medical school and training through hours of clinicals and still have to go through years of a residency program in the hopes of making it to a practice. This is after after learning about science at a conceptual level in undergraduate school. You are trying to say that a high school graduate can do this with two years of training. Do you even know what you're saying?

You also said high school graduate in your last post, but are not talking about college grads. Pick one or the other fam. You're all over the place.

As for the bolded, I don't even know what you're talking about. You are making no sense dude.

 

[Zach Lowe]

You need to accurately measure fluid to a specific pH or you can injure or kill a person (if you are to inject the patient). Many people seem to underestimate this.


You also continue to compare building a machine or some other construct to operating on a human. If you can't see the difference between the two, I really don't know what else to say. Reassembling a plumbing system is not the same as making an incision .03 cm away from a nerve. Constructing a building is not the same than performing a C-section. Not even remotely close.

MDs go through medical school and training through hours of clinicals and still have to go through years of a residency program in the hopes of making it to a practice. This is after after learning about science at a conceptual level in undergraduate school. You are trying to say that a high school graduate can do this with two years of training. Do you even know what you're saying?

You also said high school graduate in your last post, but are not talking about college grads. Pick one or the other fam. You're all over the place.

As for the bolded, I don't even know what you're talking about. You are making no sense dude.

basic science is irrelevant to the daily work of a regular doctor, you keep talmbout all that undergrad education and theory education in med school like it really matters in a surgery room

yes you can teach a high school kid to pull teeth and drain out cysts, it'll take a day each

all the training required is because they need to keep the supply of new doctors low to keep their wages up

imagine how ridiculous it would be if they invented a 4 year professional degree beyond a bachelor's for another applied profession (for idk, plumbing) and they had all sorts of honor codes and decorum so they can pretend they're not just people who work with their hands at the end of the day (who happen to be well paid)

 

[scarlxrd]

Red reps making threads

I know, it's fukking disgusting.

 

[nineteeneightysix]

I think not being smart is a big barrier. If you cannot pass the science and biology classes to get an undergraduate degree, that's a good indicator (or reality check) to tell you that you aren't qualified to be a doctor.

There are people who cannot do well in the sciences. Just plain f**** retarded. Even with a tutor, everything that is explained goes in one ear and out the other. If they cannot figure that kind of stuff out, I would rather that person not get into the medical field involving cutting a person open and fixing things. You want that person working the phones at Domino's or Pizza Hut or something more simple. No one is going to die if they screw up an order... maybe, or usually not.

1) Surgery really has nothing to do will all those courses...In Canada you DON'T need a science degree to attend some of our medical schools...All you need is the most basic science courses...

Medicine is 85% MEMORIZATION...

2) So, if you can't do well in physics, that means you can't be trained to be a surgeon? If you are not doing well in Anatomy and you are all thumbs, that's a different story...

Are you stating that the average human being CANNOT understand year 1 and 2 physics, biology, and math?

3) What does cutting a person open have to do with physics? A human on a surgical table is just like pork on a butcher's table...With practice, the average human being can be taught how to cut open a body and fix broken parts...

The Anesthesiologist, now, that is were science REALLY comes to play...Michael Jackson's death is indication enough that you have to know physiology, pharmacology, and biochemistry...It takes MORE skill than being a surgeon...

4) I can't believe some of you don't believe you are smart enough to be surgeons...

 

[Moshe.]

Consistent effort is all you need for many things, really.

1) Surgery really has nothing to do will all those courses...In Canada you DON'T need a science degree to attend some of our medical schools...All you need is the most basic science courses...

Medicine is 85% MEMORIZATION...

2) So, if you can't do well in physics, that means you can't be trained to be a surgeon? If you are not doing well in Anatomy and you are all thumbs, that's a different story...

Are you stating that the average human being CANNOT understand year 1 and 2 physics, biology, and math?

3) What does cutting a person open have to do with physics? A human on a surgical table is just like pork on a butcher's table...With practice, the average human being can be taught how to cut open a body and fix broken parts...

The Anesthesiologist, now, that is were science REALLY comes to play...Michael Jackson's death is indication enough that you have to know physiology, pharmacology, and biochemistry...It takes MORE skill than being a surgeon...

4) I can't believe some of you don't believe you are smart enough to be surgeons...

Did you do poorly in physics? The guy was talking about science in general.

But physics isn't that hard as much as it requiring one to work and give up socializing. I don't know why people go into a class, see some math, and then walk right out. IF you can read, you can do physics (may take you longer if you have a slower processing brain, otherwise, you can get to the same level with consistent effort).

As for medicine, specifically being a surgeon... I don't know. I know I am not one and until I undergo the necessary training, I won't know.

 

[The_Sheff]

1) Surgery really has nothing to do will all those courses...In Canada you DON'T need a science degree to attend some of our medical schools...All you need is the most basic science courses...

Medicine is 85% MEMORIZATION...

2) So, if you can't do well in physics, that means you can't be trained to be a surgeon? If you are not doing well in Anatomy and you are all thumbs, that's a different story...

Are you stating that the average human being CANNOT understand year 1 and 2 physics, biology, and math?

3) What does cutting a person open have to do with physics? A human on a surgical table is just like pork on a butcher's table...With practice, the average human being can be taught how to cut open a body and fix broken parts...

The Anesthesiologist, now, that is were science REALLY comes to play...Michael Jackson's death is indication enough that you have to know physiology, pharmacology, and biochemistry...It takes MORE skill than being a surgeon...

4) I can't believe some of you don't believe you are smart enough to be surgeons...

When your butcher makes a cut 2 mm too deep into your pork shoulder nobody would ever know, when a surgeon does that someone might die. Pretty huge difference there.

 

[Neil Tyson]

How well can you memorize?

A science teacher once told me that school was all about memorization. Of course there's critical thinking and the physiology of things (how things work together.)

Memorize the term, and the function and that's generally the key to success.

 

[nineteeneightysix]

When your butcher makes a cut 2 mm too deep into your pork shoulder nobody would ever know, when a surgeon does that someone might die. Pretty huge difference there.

1) What is your point? Are you saying that the average human being doesn't have enough dexterity to know how to cut a human body in the least damaging way...?

2) You learn surgery on cadavers...It is STRICTLY about MEMORIZING the human anatomy and practicing the principles of general surgery on fresh cadavers (if you go to a good school)...

Once you can cut a fresh cadaver and show the instructor that you have acquired good technique, you can move on a live body...

The thing is getting experience looking inside a real human body, because it looks different than the pictures...

3) Experience is hard to obtain because of educational bureaucracy...If that was not a barrier, an average human being could be taught how to be surgeon without all the hoops that medical schools make us go through...

4) Once you know the human anatomy and you demonstrate it, and you learn proper surgical technique and you demonstrate on cadavers, the rest is just getting experience in the operating room...If you cut an artery accidentally, what will you do? Cauterize it...

Here is the common sense of it all...If you have a bucket filled with water, and there is a tube going through the bucket through which the water can flow...If you accidentally make a hole in the hose, how will you stop too much water from escaping? You can wrap a towel around the tube...If you have a pressure gauge telling you that you lost pressure in the system, what can you do to increase the pressure, add more water in the bucket...

People solve these problems with everyday instruments and tools..Some of the same principles work in the human body...

5) It is a type of "expert" brainwashing that is consolidating power to a select few people to make the rest of us depend on them...But if society collapsed tomorrow, and we needed surgeons asap...Anyone who was interested could get trained, and most of them will be just fine...

Believe in yourself...They are NOT smarter than the rest of us....

 

[unit321]

1) Surgery really has nothing to do will all those courses...In Canada you DON'T need a science degree to attend some of our medical schools...All you need is the most basic science courses...
Medicine is 85% MEMORIZATION...

Of course not. Science is the basis for medicine and research. The act of doing a heart bypass doesn't require the surgeon to research the procedure. That's already been done. Depends on what you are doing to do. If you are discovering new things while practicing medicine, then a basis in biology and chemistry would be essential for becoming a leader in new surgical procedures or changes in existing procedures.

2) So, if you can't do well in physics, that means you can't be trained to be a surgeon? If you are not doing well in Anatomy and you are all thumbs, that's a different story...

Physics is applicable to a surgeon in the diagnosis phase. As the surgeon checks out a patient, he or she can use physics as it relates to knowing how the body moves. An orthopedic surgeon doesn't know how to pitch a baseball, or go skiing, but finding out how the body performed an action can help to pinpoint how an injury occurred and how to prevent it or fix it.

Are you stating that the average human being CANNOT understand year 1 and 2 physics, biology, and math?

There are a crap ton of human beings who cannot. Even though the average human being could study those classes, most would have difficulty. You could put them into a physics, biology and math class, but they lack the fundamental "high school" math, physics and biology to understand "university" level math, physics and biology.

3) What does cutting a person open have to do with physics? A human on a surgical table is just like pork on a butcher's table...With practice, the average human being can be taught how to cut open a body and fix broken parts...
The Anesthesiologist, now, that is were science REALLY comes to play...Michael Jackson's death is indication enough that you have to know physiology, pharmacology, and biochemistry...It takes MORE skill than being a surgeon...

Really, if you want a person to know the bare minimum to perform a surgical procedure on your body, then your risk of death or a botched procedure is higher.

4) I can't believe some of you don't believe you are smart enough to be surgeons...

Go ahead. Be a surgeon.

 

[BaldingSoHard]

No, it's not hard in the sense of difficulty.
It's hard in that it takes a lot more time and a lot more sacrifice than most people are willing to put in.

 

[BaldingSoHard]

When your butcher makes a cut 2 mm too deep into your pork shoulder nobody would ever know, when a surgeon does that someone might die. Pretty huge difference there.

Nick the vena cava, brehs.

 

[Neil Tyson]

Medicine is not difficult. How much work are you willing to put it in and memorize terms and functions? Do you want to have a life during school?

 

[feelosofer]

I basically stopped reading once you said basic science and physics aren't used by a surgeon on a daily basis. I can assure you when your azz gets appendicitis, you are going to want a board certified surgeon working on you, not some 'self-trained' street doctor. This isn't a TV show.

 

[HiphopRelated]

lol, there's a reason you don't have a C+ doctor

 

[Kyng]

it's super hard