Is Jason Kidd a top 3 PG of all time?

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

He locked up KJ in the 93 WCF?

Kevin Johnson 93 WCF (7 games) - assists 49 / points 111
Gary Payton 93 WCF (7 games)- assists 28 / points 85

Not only that, KJ limped through the playoffs that year.It was the worst
playoff run in his entire career.Some of the fans in Phoenix actually boo'd him
in the Finals vs Chicago that year....Barkley shytted on the fans saying it was
stupid of them to do that to KJ while he was playing through injuries

 

[ThaBronxBully]

So y do YOU think Kidd > Payton? :ohh:

Better Stats, A shyt Ton More Triple Doubles, A Championship, And Longevity

You Can Pick Out Things Payton Did Better Than Kidd, But You Can Sit Here All Day Doing That With Any Given Player

That Doesnt Mean Payton Is No Slouch, He's Pretty Underrated Actually

 

[Carlos Huerta]

Not only that, KJ limped through the playoffs that year.It was the worst
playoff run in his entire career.Some of the fans in Phoenix actually boo'd him
in the Finals vs Chicago that year....Barkley shytted on the fans saying it was
stupid of them to do that to KJ while he was playing through injuries

then he came back the next year and had 9.7 assists and 26.5 ppg in the WCF against the world champion Rockets

 

[Heelmatic]

this nikka said Kevin Johnson over Payton. Other than my top 5, Magic, Oscar, Zeke, Kidd, Stockton, I'd probably only put Walt Frazier and Bob Cousy ahead of GP.

 

[malbaker86]

:dafukk: anybody ranking players they never seen is a retard

This is ridiculous. So since I never "got to see" Kareem play I can't say he's a top 5 player of all-time?

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

then he came back the next year and had 9.7 assists and 26.5 ppg in the WCF against the world champion Rockets

His numbers actually went down when Barkley got there.They played a lot of
isolation ball.Throw down to Charles and let him create.Previous to chuck getting there, '88-'92 KJ absolutely shyts on Payton....he averaged 20 points and 10 assist a game for 3 straight years....22 and 12 one of them....and over 2 spg while shooting over 50% from the field.....how can nikkaz bust a gut when u say KJ>>>>Payton?

 

[Carlos Huerta]

this nikka said Kevin Johnson over Payton. Other than my top 5, Magic, Oscar, Zeke, Kidd, Stockton, I'd probably only put Walt Frazier and Bob Cousy ahead of GP.

what makes GP better thank KJ? The only reason KJ is not higher on most people's list is because his career was cut short. If you look at games played and project that over GP's games played, he was actually much better.

He outplayed him in the 93 WCF.

KJ was a better scorer and had far more assists than Gary Payton. 9.1 assists versus 6.7 for their careers. KJ averaged double-digit assists 4 times. Gary Payton didn't even do that once.

 

[CrimsonTider]

This is ridiculous. So since I never "got to see" Kareem play I can't say he's a top 5 player of all-time?

You can say whatever you want to.

But, If you're trying to make an argument for or against him by comparing him to players you seen then it would be VERY retarded

 

[Carlos Huerta]

You can say whatever you want to.

But, If you're trying to make an argument for or against him by comparing him to players you seen then it would be VERY retarded

yeah, it's "VERY retarded" for someone to say that Kareem was better than Dwight Howard because they didn't see Kareem play.

The only person saying anything retarded in this thread is you

 

[rapbeats]

GP was never really a PG like the rest of the guys in the top 5.


He was somewhat of a combo guard...Picture a less explosive Westbrook.


His best years('99-'02) came during the Westphal era in Seattle.They played that run & gun style and Payton had the best spurt of his career.Ironically, the Sonics sucked ass during that strecth.GP was never one to make his team mates elevate their game.Stats really don't tell the whole story.Looking at stats, you'd think Marbury made his teammates better, to


Payton was more of a scoring pg....had a ugly ass, knuckle ball J, and a decent post game because of his size.His offense was ugly, but effective.

He averaged 16 points and 6.7 APG for his career.Iverson, who's always getting ragged on for being a ball hog, averaged 6.2 APG for his career.



I'd definitely take Kidd over Payton.Kidd carried a bunch of scrubs to the NBA finals.Not only scrubs, but a franchise that had a culture of losing and was unaccustomed to success.He lifted that whole franchise up.


What did Payton do? what is he remembered for besides a cool nickname? Where's his all time NBA great moments/ defining moments? When Payton had the Sonics all to himself, they were mediocre as shyt.



Kevin Johnson was definitely better.....And I'm contemplating taking Tim Hardaway over him, to

I SEE you dont know what you're talking about when it comes to GP.

GP was a true PG. but he was also a scoring pg just like I.thomas.

the difference in GP and say Tim hardaway is that GP was THE GLOVE. lets not forget he actually gave Jordan some issues. and we know gary was not athletic and jordan was ultra athletic and taller/larger.

the combination of gp's scoring ability, with the setting up of teammates + the lock down defense and his Clutch ability puts him HIGH on the list. not sure where, but very high. and way above tim hardaway.

i mean lets keep it real. Gary was the 2nd best post up PG to magic. then mark jackson is next in line.

gary would destroy ANYONE in the post. a point guard in the post gets doubled and hits cutters and shooters with easy buckets. to have that ability on top of driving ability, shooting. then the defense. sorry GP was a lot better then you are making him out to be.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

this nikka said Kevin Johnson over Payton. Other than my top 5, Magic, Oscar, Zeke, Kidd, Stockton, I'd probably only put Walt Frazier and Bob Cousy ahead of GP.

Real talk. I know a lot of cats aint gon feel it, but K.J. was an absolute monster when healthy....

Problem was, he stayed hurt a good bit....

My unc used to say Walt was the truth

 

[BayArea Breez]

Tough to categorize somebody as top 3 when that position was so rich with talent over the decades.

But he is not top 3. The best PG to come out of the Bay? That's even debatable with GP holding it down for so long.

Pistol Pete Marovich was on some next level shyt too. ahead of his time.

subjective to say the least

 

[rapbeats]

Better Stats, A shyt Ton More Triple Doubles, A Championship, And Longevity

You Can Pick Out Things Payton Did Better Than Kidd, But You Can Sit Here All Day Doing That With Any Given Player

That Doesnt Mean Payton Is No Slouch, He's Pretty Underrated Actually

jkidd had triple doubles like crazy because he didnt have True big men on his team ready to grab rebounds and he was a tall guard.

GP grabbed a decent amt of rebs as well. but nothing like JKidd because GP always had at least ONE serious big man playing with him on the glass like crazy.

gp has a RING also or did you forget.

 

[Heelmatic]

what makes GP better thank KJ? The only reason KJ is not higher on most people's list is because his career was cut short. If you look at games played and project that over GP's games played, he was actually much better.

He outplayed him in the 93 WCF.

KJ was a better scorer and had far more assists than Gary Payton. 9.1 assists versus 6.7 for their careers. KJ averaged double-digit assists 4 times. Gary Payton didn't even do that once.

Payton is the best defender to ever play the position. In 11 years KJ played in under 60 games 4 times. GP didn't have any in 16 season. Payton was a very good scorer too, don't just claim KJ was better. Also, all star games, All NBA teams, All NBA defensive teams GP >>>>>KJ.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

what makes GP better thank KJ? The only reason KJ is not higher on most people's list is because his career was cut short. If you look at games played and project that over GP's games played, he was actually much better.

He outplayed him in the 93 WCF.

KJ was a better scorer and had far more assists than Gary Payton. 9.1 assists versus 6.7 for their careers. KJ averaged double-digit assists 4 times. Gary Payton didn't even do that once.

Payton is more tied into the culture.He a "real nikka" and KJ was somewhat of a square.

If you add all KJ's numbers from '88-'92, he averaged 21 points and 11 apg during that 4 year stretch before Barkley got there.


After Barkley..17.5 and 8.5 apg


KJ's playoff career average is 19 points and 9 assist per game


Payton's career playoff average is 14 points and 5 assist per game



I think the only area Payton really outshines KJ is durability and man to man defense.He played damn near twice as many games in his career than KJ

KJ was a above average defender.Especially at playing the passing lanes.He averaged 1.5 spg for his career compared to 1.8 for Payton.


Only thing GP was better at was man to man D....everything else KJ>>>>>>>