Prolly 
Is Mahomes the best QB you've ever seen?
- Thread starter 28 Gramz
- Start date
Rocket Scientist
Superstar
Yep
murksiderock
Superstar
TLDR: not the best QB ever to me. cemented as a Rushmore guy, 1-2 years off from Manning/Montana for me. I don't think he's the most talented QB I've ever seen, I think that was Manning, but I think his fir 7 years of playoff success put him arguably over Manning. I don't think he's the most clutch guy I've seen, or most dominant in money time, I think that was Brady (and Montana as someone I didn't see)...
.........
I'll say this...
There certainly hasn't been a start to a career like this. His first 7 years are like if you combine the first 7 years of Brady, Manning, Montana. Manning is the guy you'd say was a comparable talent to Mahomes (first 7 years Manning was a 2x MVP and 4x All-Pro) but he didn't have the postseason poise nor success...
Montana and Brady didn't have the level of talent at that point----I think they hit that at later stages of their career, but first 7 years they were not as talented as Mahomes. But, first 7 years, both as young QBs were demonstrating a knack for Big Games, as both were leading comebacks in playoff games and Super Bowls, on some Mahomes shyt...
He's had the best start to a career unquestionably, and if I have to bet right now, I'm gonna say he'll end up as the GOAT...
He's not the best I've ever seen yet, because I do think it matters to do it over a long stretch of time, and I'll reiterate, I'm of the belief he's probably only halfway thru his prime, if that---->I'm of the belief he's far from done.
Montana had about a 10-year prime, Brady had about 15 years, Manning had about a 16-year run. Mahomes is at 6, odds are he has 6-7 ELITE years left. But until he strings together more longevity, I can't act like that doesn't matter...
He's also not yet the greatest ever to me because hes not the first guy I've seen be consistently clutch, or the first guy I've seen dominate the championship success. So I don't agree with people who say his play style is 1of1...
He's not yet the GOAT but he's stamped as one of the 4 greatest quarterbacks ever, and he's probably got both Manning and Montana to me, with another dominant year or two. I don't have him over them yet, but it's marginal and I'm not tripping over anyone who does have him over those guys. He's close enough, another year or two of playing at this level, I'll have him over them...
He's still a ways off from Brady to me. Not quite sure at the moment what it'll take for him to leap Brady, but I don't think he's close, and I think it's a variety of factors...
Thru 7 years, Mahomes is unquestionably better than Brady was thru 7. Not an argument. The thing for me, is I know what Brady became beyond his first 7 years, this isn't small shyt, and the same way I dislike cats downplaying how Manning innovated and revolutionized the position----->I'm not with guys downplaying Brady's work...
Mahomes is hitting Y8 this coming year. Brady hit Y8 in 2007. Basically from that point on, Brady was an absolute flamethrower, he'd shown himself to continually improve each year, but Y8 he had a rocket up his ass and really didn't slow down for at least a decade, maybe longer depending on when you think he exited his prime. This matters to me, same way it matters Mahomes is the best "thru 7 years" QB I've seen, I saw the level Brady hit in Y8 on...
Also, that final drive was perfection from Mahomes last night, in a game he played really well, imperfect, but was money in the end. I've seen that before, his name was Tom Brady. And Mahomes has had some good Super Bowls, the overriding factor being he just gets it done in the end...
But I still haven't seen a Mahomes SB top Brady in SBs 49, 51, 52. This last night was probably on par with what Brady's 4th-best SB performance was, SB38 vs Carolina. So I think for me too, there's no denying Mahomes as a Rushmore guy, but I'm waiting to see him have a game that approaches Brady's top performances. And I dont think this is unreasonable, he's played in 4 Super Bowls, that's more than anyone All-Time besides Elway and Brady. So he's played in a lot of Super Bowls, this is fair...
Then, Brady outplayed him in SB55, Brady being 2-0 vs him at an advanced stage and being one of just two QBs to beat him in Arrowhead, I do not think he can't overcome this. But he hasn't done enough to overcome it yet. So all of these factors combined, I don't think he's close to Brady yet, if he's a year or two off from the other two, I can't put a time frame on it for Brady but he isn't close...
.........
I'll say this...
There certainly hasn't been a start to a career like this. His first 7 years are like if you combine the first 7 years of Brady, Manning, Montana. Manning is the guy you'd say was a comparable talent to Mahomes (first 7 years Manning was a 2x MVP and 4x All-Pro) but he didn't have the postseason poise nor success...
Montana and Brady didn't have the level of talent at that point----I think they hit that at later stages of their career, but first 7 years they were not as talented as Mahomes. But, first 7 years, both as young QBs were demonstrating a knack for Big Games, as both were leading comebacks in playoff games and Super Bowls, on some Mahomes shyt...
He's had the best start to a career unquestionably, and if I have to bet right now, I'm gonna say he'll end up as the GOAT...
He's not the best I've ever seen yet, because I do think it matters to do it over a long stretch of time, and I'll reiterate, I'm of the belief he's probably only halfway thru his prime, if that---->I'm of the belief he's far from done.
Montana had about a 10-year prime, Brady had about 15 years, Manning had about a 16-year run. Mahomes is at 6, odds are he has 6-7 ELITE years left. But until he strings together more longevity, I can't act like that doesn't matter...
He's also not yet the greatest ever to me because hes not the first guy I've seen be consistently clutch, or the first guy I've seen dominate the championship success. So I don't agree with people who say his play style is 1of1...
He's not yet the GOAT but he's stamped as one of the 4 greatest quarterbacks ever, and he's probably got both Manning and Montana to me, with another dominant year or two. I don't have him over them yet, but it's marginal and I'm not tripping over anyone who does have him over those guys. He's close enough, another year or two of playing at this level, I'll have him over them...
He's still a ways off from Brady to me. Not quite sure at the moment what it'll take for him to leap Brady, but I don't think he's close, and I think it's a variety of factors...
Thru 7 years, Mahomes is unquestionably better than Brady was thru 7. Not an argument. The thing for me, is I know what Brady became beyond his first 7 years, this isn't small shyt, and the same way I dislike cats downplaying how Manning innovated and revolutionized the position----->I'm not with guys downplaying Brady's work...
Mahomes is hitting Y8 this coming year. Brady hit Y8 in 2007. Basically from that point on, Brady was an absolute flamethrower, he'd shown himself to continually improve each year, but Y8 he had a rocket up his ass and really didn't slow down for at least a decade, maybe longer depending on when you think he exited his prime. This matters to me, same way it matters Mahomes is the best "thru 7 years" QB I've seen, I saw the level Brady hit in Y8 on...
Also, that final drive was perfection from Mahomes last night, in a game he played really well, imperfect, but was money in the end. I've seen that before, his name was Tom Brady. And Mahomes has had some good Super Bowls, the overriding factor being he just gets it done in the end...
But I still haven't seen a Mahomes SB top Brady in SBs 49, 51, 52. This last night was probably on par with what Brady's 4th-best SB performance was, SB38 vs Carolina. So I think for me too, there's no denying Mahomes as a Rushmore guy, but I'm waiting to see him have a game that approaches Brady's top performances. And I dont think this is unreasonable, he's played in 4 Super Bowls, that's more than anyone All-Time besides Elway and Brady. So he's played in a lot of Super Bowls, this is fair...
Then, Brady outplayed him in SB55, Brady being 2-0 vs him at an advanced stage and being one of just two QBs to beat him in Arrowhead, I do not think he can't overcome this. But he hasn't done enough to overcome it yet. So all of these factors combined, I don't think he's close to Brady yet, if he's a year or two off from the other two, I can't put a time frame on it for Brady but he isn't close...
murksiderock
Superstar
Also, let me add this here...
I didn't think Brady was better than Manning for a long, long time. He always had the rings over Manning, and those who know my post history in basketball and football, know a consistency with me, I'm not a ring counter. Brady wasn't even really close to Manning to me, until 2007, and the 2008-2011 stretch I thought Brady closed the gap....
When Manning went to Denver, those first two years in 2012 and 2013, catapulted him to, "this is the greatest quarterback ever" consideration. I was willing to overlook his postseason flaws because Peyton Manning is who I think about, the way I felt watching him, when guys describe what watching Michael Jordan was like. He was a more explosive quarterback than Brady, Brady certainly closed the gap but Manning obliterated all the "he can't play outside" shyt when he went to Denver, and came off a career-threatening injury to be the best QB in football in years 15 and 16...
To date, I haven't seen a quarterback play the position better than Manning. This includes everyone, and of course he had bad games, so did Peak Jordan, but Manning inarguably changed how the position was played, his complete mastery of the other team's defense was some different shyt...
I don't see this with Mahomes, all these guys are dominant, but Manning in the regular season was different...
Still, I knew and had watched his playoff flops, and let me say this too, I wasn't a Manning fan during his career, I'm a Titans guy. So his early run in Denver had me thinking best ever shyt, then watched him flop in the playoffs again...
What first got me was, throwing that pick and losing to Baltimore in 2012, it was yet another bad loss. But then he came back in '13 somehow better......then rhe way he was absolutely emasculated by Seattle in the Super Bowl, I couldn't say anyone is the best ever who so consistently looked afraid of the moment. I think '13 was when I started distinguishing him as the GOAT "regular season" QB. His postseason just never matched his regular seasons...
The Brady thing happened for me in '14, him coming from behind to beat tge same defense that just chumped out Manning, at that point I conceded he's better than Manning. And in real time I was calling LOB the greatest defense ever, they were banged up in that Super Bowl, and they should've won the game. But Brady's second half performance of that game, it's just something Manning never did, even if Seattle won and Brady still played the same, that's the moment I had Brady over Manning...
So Brady is in Y15 at that point, and it's him and Montana, and I still had Montana #1...
SB51, that's the game I knew I was watching the greatest quarterback ever, that's the one that did it. That second half performance, combined with everything he'd done in his career to that point, that was it. Y17 Brady....
I don't give out "greatest of all time" lightly. And I dont think it'll necessarily take Mahomes 17 or 15 years for him to be that, but I absolutely don't think he's that after just 7 years. He hasn't done enough...
And yall lucky I wasn't online back when I disliked LeBron, anyone who knows my post history knows I've been candid, I wasn't always a LeBron guy. He won me over with that 2013 season in Y10, similar to how Mahomes won me over in Y7/2023. I became a fan in '13, but I didn't think he was the GOAT until 2016, 13 years in...
So I think for Mahomes, I haven't seen that '16 Bron performance, I haven't seen comparable performances to Brady's best games, I haven't seen the longevity, Bron for 13 years, Brady for 17, that stamped them as the GOATs to me...
I'm pretty sure that when I see that performance from Mahomes, that'll do it, because then he'll have an entire career to go along with it, however long said career is at that point. That game where he beats a historic LOB-esque defense, this Niners team wasn't that, the Eagles weren't that, the '19 Niners weren't. That game he obliterates the '16 Warriors type team, that game he's down big like the way he lost a SB by 22 points, couldn't overcome it, the game he's not just down 10 points like 10-0 (SB58) or 20-10 (SB54), the game he's getting his teeth kicked in the way he did in SB55, the way Brady was in SB51----->and Mahomes elevates to an unreal level...
So I guess that's what I haven't seen. Those are the performances that made Brady the GOAT to me, made Bron the GOAT. Mahomes is one of the Top 4 GOATs, but he hasn't had THOSE performances yet. I saw Brady come back from 25 down, in the 3rdQ. I saw Mahomes lose a Super Bowl by less than that margin. I saw Brady overcome the greatest defense in NFL history, I've seen Mahomes overcome some elite defenses but aren't historic on sine All-Time shyt, and I guess that, coupled with mire longevity, is what I need to see. Because I believe the few guys with cases to be THE goat, have those kind of hallmark performances, the god-level play on the biggest stage...
I didn't think Brady was better than Manning for a long, long time. He always had the rings over Manning, and those who know my post history in basketball and football, know a consistency with me, I'm not a ring counter. Brady wasn't even really close to Manning to me, until 2007, and the 2008-2011 stretch I thought Brady closed the gap....
When Manning went to Denver, those first two years in 2012 and 2013, catapulted him to, "this is the greatest quarterback ever" consideration. I was willing to overlook his postseason flaws because Peyton Manning is who I think about, the way I felt watching him, when guys describe what watching Michael Jordan was like. He was a more explosive quarterback than Brady, Brady certainly closed the gap but Manning obliterated all the "he can't play outside" shyt when he went to Denver, and came off a career-threatening injury to be the best QB in football in years 15 and 16...
To date, I haven't seen a quarterback play the position better than Manning. This includes everyone, and of course he had bad games, so did Peak Jordan, but Manning inarguably changed how the position was played, his complete mastery of the other team's defense was some different shyt...
I don't see this with Mahomes, all these guys are dominant, but Manning in the regular season was different...
Still, I knew and had watched his playoff flops, and let me say this too, I wasn't a Manning fan during his career, I'm a Titans guy. So his early run in Denver had me thinking best ever shyt, then watched him flop in the playoffs again...
What first got me was, throwing that pick and losing to Baltimore in 2012, it was yet another bad loss. But then he came back in '13 somehow better......then rhe way he was absolutely emasculated by Seattle in the Super Bowl, I couldn't say anyone is the best ever who so consistently looked afraid of the moment. I think '13 was when I started distinguishing him as the GOAT "regular season" QB. His postseason just never matched his regular seasons...
The Brady thing happened for me in '14, him coming from behind to beat tge same defense that just chumped out Manning, at that point I conceded he's better than Manning. And in real time I was calling LOB the greatest defense ever, they were banged up in that Super Bowl, and they should've won the game. But Brady's second half performance of that game, it's just something Manning never did, even if Seattle won and Brady still played the same, that's the moment I had Brady over Manning...
So Brady is in Y15 at that point, and it's him and Montana, and I still had Montana #1...
SB51, that's the game I knew I was watching the greatest quarterback ever, that's the one that did it. That second half performance, combined with everything he'd done in his career to that point, that was it. Y17 Brady....
I don't give out "greatest of all time" lightly. And I dont think it'll necessarily take Mahomes 17 or 15 years for him to be that, but I absolutely don't think he's that after just 7 years. He hasn't done enough...
And yall lucky I wasn't online back when I disliked LeBron, anyone who knows my post history knows I've been candid, I wasn't always a LeBron guy. He won me over with that 2013 season in Y10, similar to how Mahomes won me over in Y7/2023. I became a fan in '13, but I didn't think he was the GOAT until 2016, 13 years in...
So I think for Mahomes, I haven't seen that '16 Bron performance, I haven't seen comparable performances to Brady's best games, I haven't seen the longevity, Bron for 13 years, Brady for 17, that stamped them as the GOATs to me...
I'm pretty sure that when I see that performance from Mahomes, that'll do it, because then he'll have an entire career to go along with it, however long said career is at that point. That game where he beats a historic LOB-esque defense, this Niners team wasn't that, the Eagles weren't that, the '19 Niners weren't. That game he obliterates the '16 Warriors type team, that game he's down big like the way he lost a SB by 22 points, couldn't overcome it, the game he's not just down 10 points like 10-0 (SB58) or 20-10 (SB54), the game he's getting his teeth kicked in the way he did in SB55, the way Brady was in SB51----->and Mahomes elevates to an unreal level...
So I guess that's what I haven't seen. Those are the performances that made Brady the GOAT to me, made Bron the GOAT. Mahomes is one of the Top 4 GOATs, but he hasn't had THOSE performances yet. I saw Brady come back from 25 down, in the 3rdQ. I saw Mahomes lose a Super Bowl by less than that margin. I saw Brady overcome the greatest defense in NFL history, I've seen Mahomes overcome some elite defenses but aren't historic on sine All-Time shyt, and I guess that, coupled with mire longevity, is what I need to see. Because I believe the few guys with cases to be THE goat, have those kind of hallmark performances, the god-level play on the biggest stage...
Still think it's Brady