Is "What They Do" the most pretentious Hip Hop song of all time?

[FunkDoc1112]

Some of you dudes clearly weren't living hip-hop in '96 to say The Roots were in any shape, form, or fashion wrong about that song and video. '96 is when the hip-hop divide was at its apex. Not only The Roots and De La, but KRS, Bush Babees, Wu-Tang, Chuck D, Jeru, ...a whole slate of artists were voicing legitimate concerns and raising debate around where hip-hop was heading. It was entire collection of people, it wasn't one or two cats raising a stink for the fukk of it.


Also, Illadelph Halflife was the best album of '96, so they could pretty much say whatever the fukk they wanted to about the state of the culture and the music because they earned that right considering the competition of heavyweight albums that dropped that year.

But yeah, they were just pretentious "haters". Not like the direction of the music went off a cliff in '97 or anything with the shiny suit era, followed by the iced-out thug era, followed by a bunch of forgetable eras culminating in whatever the fukk it is now they're calling hip-hop culture and music.

Like Wu-Tang Forever had an entire skit railing against that whole Bad Boy image, the divide was very real.

 

[Bolzmark]

He made crossover records, straight up said he dumbed down to double his dollars and pushed the "I'm not a rapper, I'm a hustler" mentality. Treating music as a transaction

Wow you must think pretty much EVERY rapper sold out because I can't think of even a moderately popular rapper that hasn't made crossover records, and dumbed down their lyrics. The "I'm not a rapper, I'm a hustler" sounds funny because this dude has been working on his craft since the 80's. He may be a hustler yes but what he has been selling is music that apparently the culture has been pretty fond of for over two decades.

 

[spliz]

You were saying?








Carry on gentlemen...

What a fukking stupid point. Do u know when that album dropped? Do u know what was going on in hip hop at that time? And he even blamed HIMSELF as well.

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

Like Wu-Tang Forever had an entire skit railing against that whole Bad Boy image, the divide was very real.

Bro, I still remember that Wu-Tang MTV documentary where RZA all but basically said "fukk Puffy and what he's doing to the culture". They showed him some clip of Bad Boy doing what they were doing and dancing and he was like "they doing whatever but you can't say that shyt is iller than breakdancing cuz breakdancing is hip-hop". Or in other words, them n*ggas and their whole style and approach to this shyt AIN'T HIP-HOP. (Paraphrasing, but he kept it buck about how he felt without totally shytting on them.)

That's why it was so disappointing as a young fan at the time to see KRS go on this crusade in '96 against The Source, commercial rap, and the state of hip-hop, and turn around less than a year later and have Puffy, who he spent the better part of the past 2 yrs sneak dissing, rap on the "Step Into A World" remix.

Chuck D's first single for his first solo album that he dropped in '96, "No", was a track calling out the industry and the state of hip-hop.

Jeru actually named names on "One Day", calling out Bad Boy and Foxxy Brown among other names. Hence Biggie dissing him on "Kick In The Door." Jeru made what the Roots did look like a love tap. The fukking hook on his lead single says "With all that big willie talk, ya playin' yaself".

Sean Price aka Ruck (R.I.P. ) on the "Dejesus" skit off Nocturnal clowning rappers for their obsessions rhyming about designer clothes, skank bytches, and drug trafficking.

Listen to Wise Intelligent on the "New World Order" album from Poor Righteous Teachers (arguably top 3 album in '96) talking at the beginning of Culture Freedom's solo track about how they ain't made an album in 3yrs and "n*ggas still sound like they just getting high smoking blunts, drinking 40s, and running up in the studio saying the first shyt that pops in their head."

I say all of this to say The Roots weren't saying or insinuating anything that dozens of artists weren't already feeling or saying, let alone the thousands of hip-hop fans who felt that same way.

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

What a fukking stupid point. Do u know when that album dropped? Do u know what was going on in hip hop at that time? And he even blamed HIMSELF as well.

No, I have no idea when it dropped. I just started being a part of this hip-hop shyt a few days ago.



How is it a stupid point? Your idol did the same exact shyt that The Roots did. Hit dogs all over the map (though mainly down South ) hollered and bytched about it in the same exact way that they did when The Roots made a statement on the decline of artistry in the music and the industry as a whole.

I know you'd sooner walk over hot coals than criticize Nas, but anybody being completely honest here would acknowledge there is zero difference between HHID and What They Do, other than Nas literally recording AN ENTIRE ALBUM expressing the exact same sentiments that The Roots did in a single song and video.

 

[JustCKing]

He made crossover records, straight up said he dumbed down to double his dollars and pushed the "I'm not a rapper, I'm a hustler" mentality. Treating music as a transaction

I agree with "dumbing down to double his dollars" is him selling out. It's actually selling out by all definitions. Making crossover records isn't selling out though unless it's something the artist was vehemently against before.

 

[spliz]

No, I have no idea when it dropped. I just started being a part of this hip-hop shyt a few days ago.



How is it a stupid point? Your idol did the same exact shyt that The Roots did. Hit dogs all over the map (though mainly down South ) hollered and bytched about it in the same exact way that they did when The Roots made a statement on the decline of artistry in the music and the industry as a whole.

I know you'd sooner walk over hot coals than criticize Nas, but anybody being completely honest here would acknowledge there is zero difference between HHID and What They Do, other than Nas literally recording AN ENTIRE ALBUM expressing the exact same sentiments that The Roots did in a single song and video.

There is difference. Ur being disingenuous. But I’m not gonna argue with u because I know it already. These were completely different times in hip hop. Completely different things going on in hip hop. Over 10 years apart. And Nas even held HIMSELF accountable. That’s not condescending or pretentious at all. U missed the point of the fukking thread and u pointed me out and brought up Nas thinking u had a one up and for easy daps. fukk outta here kid.

 

[Cladyclad]

U an absolute dikkrider. People pointing out they was on Jay tip ain’t even a knock on Jay. It’s more a knock on them but u don’t see that cause u such a dikkrider.

U a grown man calling the roots out their name just because they worked with Jay Z a few times. Yall dudes are fukking weird

 

[jwinfield]

Common had that line in I Used to Love H.E.R

"I was offended she was with the boyz in the hood"

Caught up in the Hype Williams, and lost H.E.R. direction
Gettin' ate in sections where I wouldn't eat H.E.R
An under-the-counter love, so silently I treat H.E.R
Her Daddy'd beat H.E.R., eyes all Puff-ed
In the mix on tape, nikkas had her in the buff

 

[Diondon]

Didn't Big have static with them nikkas for this song
I know he had OGC stomped out

 

[Yehuda]

The other day Gillie had to tell Black Thought "bro stop it I don't need y'all for shyt" when he tried to play him like a junior talking about "you'll be invited to the Roots Picnic at the right time" as if he had to complete some quests in order to be deemed worthy of being on the lineup.

This band just comes off as insolent.

 

[nieman]

We are nearly 28 years removed from "What They Do" and theat song wasn't predicting the future. It was criticizing Hip Hop then. Whatever matket share Hip Hop is losing now or whether you can bump "No Flex Zone" is absolutely irrelevant to the discussion because when The Roots dropped this song, Hip Hop was on its way to being the biggest thing in Popular music.

Regardless of how great of a song "What They Do" is, it was still dissing what was popular at the time. Everybody asking "were they wrong" were huge fans of the music that "What They Do" was dissing and its laughable to leap frog and gloss over that to use that song to dismiss music that came decades later.

But it's not though. The lyrics are everything that is blatant now.

The video is another thing, but the song itself was criticizing the exploitation of hip-hop

 

[nieman]

It was pretentious but theres a crazy amount of underground rap songs saying the exact same stuff about mainstream Hip Hop.

I think theres always going to be valid things to criticize about Hip Hop. But also this was just a song, and its a really smooth song with broad appeal that you could play in almost any setting. A few years later they started doing even more commercial songs like You Got Me, that one with the Rolling Stones sounding beat etc and living the Jay-Z, Jimmy Fallon celebrity party life. I'm not even saying that was wrong for them, but it was their decision so yeah hypocrisy. All that "keep it real" shyt turned out to be just another trend just like the shyt it was criticizing.

At the same time, Hip Hop became more and more saturated with bullshyt until it completely hit rock bottom by the mid 2000s. Roots for the most part were at least able to make good music during that period. Even then they had a few pandering shytty moments where they were just trying to read the room in that era, shyt that they never would have made in 96.

They did a You Got Me type song on every album before that. You Got Me wasn't commercial, it was just the song that blew up. And as for Jimmy Fallon, dude is a music junkie with an eclectic college hippie white boy taste. If you wanted a steady job with any TV personality, he would be one of the purest music heads to go with.

The other day Gillie had to tell Black Thought "bro stop it I don't need y'all for shyt" when he tried to play him like a junior talking about "you'll be invited to the Roots Picnic at the right time" as if he had to complete some quests in order to be deemed worthy of being on the lineup.

This band just comes off as insolent.

That ish happened like 4-5 years ago. AND they've been to The Roots Picnic several times, before and after, and just weren't on the marquee. They weren't in the lineup that year. And other than Gillie, I don't think any podcast has been on multiple times.

 

[JustCKing]

But it's not though. The lyrics are everything that is blatant now.

The video is another thing, but the song itself was criticizing the exploitation of hip-hop

Which was addressing the exploitation that was going on THEN. It was focused on that particular era if Hip Hop. It may fit now, but it wasn't addressing the future.

 

[nieman]

Them nikkas was involved in just as much fukkery behind the scenes as they complained about from mainstream rappers if not more. And yes. Damn near becoming Jay-Z’s band is a complete contradiction to the shyt they were preaching. Jay was like the ultimate mainstream rapper. And that’s not a knock on Jay. That’s a knock on THEM bytch ass nikkas for acting like they were better than cats like Jay at first. Cats like Questlove mad at Nas for years cause he didn’t know who his bum lookin ass was and thought he was a delivery man. THAT nikka specifically was the most pretentious part of that group. Black Thought is that nikka tho.

But what ish were they preaching? Their perception is one thing, but they had gun bars, hustlin bars and all types of music. They were just viewed as alternative because of the way they made music. The entire song was this is our livelihood and we love the culture, be original, come with the skills, and respect the culture. They didn't say anything about making money off of hip-hop, they really didn't say anything about being mainstream either. They said never do what they do - the generic, fake, industry-driven ish. That's it!