I've seen enough: Jokic is a top 6 center of all-time
- Thread starter 2legit
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This is a damn good analogy.
Robinson was one of the all time great NBA centers and Sabonis made him look like his son in that 1st video.
Seeing those old-ass Sabonis vs. Sampson highlights in the video made me track down a matchup I'd never heard of before.
So those highlights versus Ralph Sampson turn out to be from 1982. A team of young USSR players was touring the USA, playing various elite college teams. Sabonis was just 17 years old at the time, but was already the star of the USSR squad. Sampson was 22 years old, the most highly touted recruit since Kareem, and was on his way to winning his 3rd National Player of the Year award (he would have declared for the draft the previous year, but the #1 pick was a lottery between the Clippers and Lakers, and Sampson chose to stay in school rather than run a 50% risk of having the Clippers draft him. If Sampson had stayed in the draft, the Lakers had worked out a deal to pick him and then trade away Kareem).
The game was very even with teams going back-and-forth and both Sampson and Sabonis creating major problems. Sampson had 13 points, 25 rebounds, one assist, two steals, and nine blocks on 6/17 shooting. Sabonis had 21 points, 14 rebounds, three assists, one steal, and four blocks on 6/16 shooting but fouled out in double overtime, the last of the 5 Soviet starters to foul out. A story on the game mentions multiple Soviet players being extremely disgruntled at the calls and one even throwing a ball into the stands, but doesn't mention Sabonis being one of them. Virginia finally pulled away in double-overtime against the USSR bench, one of just 2 games out of 12 that the Soviets lost in their tour.
Sampson would go on to be the Rookie of the Year next year, averaging 21 and 11 with 2.4 blocks/game. So Sabonis at just 17 was good enough to match well against the best NBA prospect a good 5 years older than himself.
This ain’t got nothing to do with Melo. It's folks propping this cat when he hasn’t won shyt. 2 MVPS doesn’t make his ass a top 5 center of all time.Stop moving the goalposts. You said he has had a "good three year run". Calling it "good" is pure idiocy.
You and the Squirrel Man just need to admit you don't like Joker because he's made Melo an afterthought for the Nuggets and that MPJ isn't actually the MVP of Denver..
Those are facts, not opinion.
This is motherfukkas being prisoners of the moment. Some clown actually said he was better than Shaq, FOH!
You said he's had a "good few years". How is two straight MVP's (should be three) and a possible NBA Finals MVP and NBA Championship on the menu not a great or historic few years?
That is what I'm talking about. Some of you are downplaying what he's done. I'm not going to get into the all time comparisons, but calling his run "good" is just absurd.
Peruvian Connect
Superstar
Shaq is overrated , Shaq is top 10 Center of All-Time.
I'm taking Jabbar, Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon, Robinson, Moses, Jokic, Embiid over Shaq
I'm taking Jabbar, Wilt, Russell, Olajuwon, Robinson, Moses, Jokic, Embiid over Shaq
Kobestans don't even express their appreciation of Kobe by supporting him anymore, they just show it by posting hate for everyone they can if they think it will somehow help Kobe's legacy.
@BucciMane, @2legit, even him saying Moses is petty as fukk. Shaq was basically a far larger version of Moses with far better moves and touch inside. Shaq was significantly better on the defensive end as well. Moses's only advantages were rebounding and free throws, and half the rebounding advantage was era as much as anything. I bet you anything he's never watched even two games of Moses, he's just throwing out every name he can.
This nikka said Embiid over Shaq
like Prime Shaq wasn't the most dominant offense force in the leagueDavid Robinson????
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I didn't get to see Moses play, but I didn't bold him as he's at least a three time MVP. I was being as generous as possible.
But, Embiid and Robinson?!
I posted this last year and it still rings true and he’s only gotten better.
For the people who doubt how good Jokic actually is I implore you to watch 10 Nuggets game and just focus on what he's doing on the court. He literally does everything.
People say he's a floor general in the same vein as Nash and CP3 but Jokers time of possession is nearly half of theirs (4.1 sec vs 8-10 sec).
These guys also aren't grabbing defensive rebounds and running the fast break or throwing 2-3 outlet passes every game. These mans aren't also giving their teams extra possessions on the offensive glass like Jokic does.
The general consensus by fans and media is that Curry is the ultimate off ball movement player. Jokic at his position deserves that title as well. Not only is he actively directing his teammates where they need to be on the offensive end, he's always freeing himself to get open throughout the game getting downhill on bigs from screens and pin downs from his guards for wide open layups. Pretty sure he leads the league in screens and screen assists as well. No one in the league at the center spot is playing like this - being the offensive hub (coaching) while also playing like a Guard.
Kyrie is probably the most skilled player in the league today. He has unlimited counters and his finishing ability and touch around the rim is unmatched, he is able to adjust on the fly like no other. The same can be said for Jokic at the center spot. He has floaters on the fly anywhere on the court, euro steps between traffic, sombor shuffle, multiple spin cycles, etc.
You wanna compare bigs to him then? Go for it. Shaq is considered the most dominant big ever, yet Jokic shoots the same 2pt percentage as Shaq, a player whose buckets were 95% dunks and near the rim. This isn't a coincidence my dudes, the skills and timing hes developed from water polo has helped him tremendously. Elite contested rebounder, tip passes that other players in the league have started copying, tip ins and always keeping the ball high, these are things that can't be teached on the NBA court.
Dirk? Jokic shoots near the same career percentage as Dirk from 10-16 feet, largely considered the uninamous goat shooting big. The volume isn't comparable but the point still stands he is elite in almost every facet of the game
He’s a future GOAT and easily the most skilled player to ever touch a basketball
For the people who doubt how good Jokic actually is I implore you to watch 10 Nuggets game and just focus on what he's doing on the court. He literally does everything.
People say he's a floor general in the same vein as Nash and CP3 but Jokers time of possession is nearly half of theirs (4.1 sec vs 8-10 sec).
These guys also aren't grabbing defensive rebounds and running the fast break or throwing 2-3 outlet passes every game. These mans aren't also giving their teams extra possessions on the offensive glass like Jokic does.
The general consensus by fans and media is that Curry is the ultimate off ball movement player. Jokic at his position deserves that title as well. Not only is he actively directing his teammates where they need to be on the offensive end, he's always freeing himself to get open throughout the game getting downhill on bigs from screens and pin downs from his guards for wide open layups. Pretty sure he leads the league in screens and screen assists as well. No one in the league at the center spot is playing like this - being the offensive hub (coaching) while also playing like a Guard.
Kyrie is probably the most skilled player in the league today. He has unlimited counters and his finishing ability and touch around the rim is unmatched, he is able to adjust on the fly like no other. The same can be said for Jokic at the center spot. He has floaters on the fly anywhere on the court, euro steps between traffic, sombor shuffle, multiple spin cycles, etc.
You wanna compare bigs to him then? Go for it. Shaq is considered the most dominant big ever, yet Jokic shoots the same 2pt percentage as Shaq, a player whose buckets were 95% dunks and near the rim. This isn't a coincidence my dudes, the skills and timing hes developed from water polo has helped him tremendously. Elite contested rebounder, tip passes that other players in the league have started copying, tip ins and always keeping the ball high, these are things that can't be teached on the NBA court.
Dirk? Jokic shoots near the same career percentage as Dirk from 10-16 feet, largely considered the uninamous goat shooting big. The volume isn't comparable but the point still stands he is elite in almost every facet of the game
He’s a future GOAT and easily the most skilled player to ever touch a basketball
Flex Grossman
Funky
Well said.
Jokic may be marginally better than he has been the last couple years, but not by much. The broad perception of him has gone from overrated fraud MVP that can’t guard anybody to future all time great, and the only thing that changed is that people actually watched him play consistently because he just played series against KD and Lebron.
You mean most skilled big?
You don't understand the difference height makes in the NBA. Nothing about his ballhandling, shooting, or defense would even be upper tier if he were 6 feet tall.
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