Jay -Z being the undisputed goat is a narrative created by the corporations he works for

[TheOptimisticCynikal]

negged

Doesn't change the fact that JAY Z was never bumped in the South like that which many people will gladly voice, but Future is played everywhere for the past what? Decade almost?

Before Jay Z bailed him out from ICE, even 21 Savage was of the view Future was bigger than Jay Z.

Ray Daniels argues the same thing, but he's an Atlanta music exec, so he's biased, but people didn't see that as a ridiculous argument.

 

[Cladyclad]

He saw X scorching hot with Ruff Ryders anthem and got Money, Cash, Hoes...hopped on Ruff Ryders Soundtrack for Jigga Amy nikka...and Girl's Best Friend

In 98 & 99, Ruff Ryders >>> Rocafella

He made sure he got 3 singles from Swizz when RR was on fire

That's why Nas clowned him for not having an identity

He didn't know if he wanted to be big, nas, a ruff Ryder, from Philly...just constant identity crisis

U do know X and jay had prior history

they were in a group

they were on the same label

saying jay z not having a identity is crazy

 

[BronxBomber]

The references people are using lets me know they are too young to have really seen his whole career.

 

[Cladyclad]

Doesn't change the fact that JAY Z was never bumped in the South like that which many people will gladly voice, but Future is played everywhere for the past what? Decade almost?

Before Jay Z bailed him out from ICE, even 21 Savage was of the view Future was bigger than Jay Z.

Ray Daniels argues the same thing, but he's an Atlanta music exec, so he's biased, but people didn't see that as a ridiculous argument.

The last time Jay z had a first week as low as future best first week was in 1997 lol

 

[TheOptimisticCynikal]

The last time Jay z had a first week as low as future best first week was in 1997 lol

That's cool. Music wise, there's still an argument that Future has a bigger influence and Jay Z not the Goat.

There's a lot of nuance that goes into comparing music eras, particularly how it's consumed and the measurement of that consumption, but have that

 

[Controversy]

U do know X and jay had prior history

they were in a group

they were on the same label

saying jay z not having a identity is crazy

Jay took from nikkas

His signature sound was derived from Ghostface & Beans sound

His flow was derived from Nas, Young Chris & Jaz

You can't dispute Jigga got 3 singles from the RR sound in the yr 1999 alone

Swizz was not a Rocafella producer...getting 3 singles out a competing label is crazy

And he got Can I Get A out of Irv & Ja

And he sharked concepts and beats on BP

All I need was a song from Naam Brigade (Philly)

Lyrical Exercise was a sharked concept from Oschino

This nikka character is to take

 

[Cladyclad]

That's cool. Music wise, there's still an argument that Future has a bigger influence and Jay Z not the Goat.

There's a lot of nuance that goes into comparing music eras, particularly how it's consumed and the measurement of that consumption, but have that

Jay z changed how most rappers record music now

future for one. He don’t write his music on paper

i wonder who started that lol

 

[Cladyclad]

Jay took from nikkas

His signature sound was derived from Ghostface & Beans sound

His flow was derived from Nas, Young Chris & Jaz

You can't dispute Jigga got 3 singles from the RR sound in the yr 1999 alone

Swizz was not a Rocafella producer...getting 3 singles out a competing label is crazy

And he got Can I Get A out of Irv & Ja

And he sharked concepts and beats on BP

All I need was a song from Naam Brigade (Philly)

Lyrical Exercise was a sharked concept from Oschino

This nikka character is to take

Idgaf he got a beat from a producer


wtf is wrong with you

 

[Controversy]

Idgaf he got a beat from a producer


wtf is wrong with you

Ignore the obvious breh

You asked me to give an example and I gave you a damn thesis

 

[904]

Got damn it's a lot hate in this thread...

Everytime I go to quote something I see a post dumber than the shyt I'm quoting

I think I'll just let y'all have it

 

[Bolzmark]

I don't wanna quote Drake, but we both know the flaw in this


Fixed.
Now and then Dirt Off Your Shoulder, Empire State of Mind, and a few other hits may get plays somewhere outside NYC. Hell, I hear songs off Maga Carter Holy Grail more than his old catelogue and ppl hated that when it came out (I think it's Jay's best post 2010s work)

Listen man, huge Jay Z fan, but his reign (that some would argue if it even was a reign) had questionable moments

Not hating, to his credit, JAY Z literally gave the Blueprint to how to make money out of rap during a time when black artists were being fukked over. That in itself should make him immortal in black culture. He definitely is an important figure, but Hip Hop Goat? I'm sorry, there are just many better candidates even within his own class if we're talking rapping, and even that is multifaceted i.e Will.i.am's black thought take which he was not shouted down at as a ridiculous take.

People are even debating rn if Future, musically, had a greater influence and they're not wrong.

Who did JAY Z flawlessly defeat in a memorable rap beef (lyrics wise, not silly non-music shyt)?

Was JAY Z sound so undeniable that an artist later down the line was inspired by it and took it further? (I.e Travis Scott with Kid Cudi, Young Thug, Lil Uzi Vert, any popular rapper post-2010 with Lil Wayne, any lyrical Atl rapper with Andre 3000)

What sound did HOV have (that was genuinely recognized as his thing) and can you still find traces of that in today's hip hop? IMO maybe Pusha T and Clipse. Big maybe. Jay hopped on whatever sound was hot at the time and has had multiple occasions where he misread the culture, damn near sounding like he was a Confederate general in a past life with his veiled, dog-whistle disses to Southern hip hop culture and artist. (money phone critique, death of auto tune, "playing Future with yo kids")

1. Respectfully, how old are you? Because that comment about Future got me thinking you’re close to being a teenager.

2. If not Jay, then who? You’ve pointed out things that you say show why he’s not the GOAT. ok, so tell us who you think it is. I GUARANTEE I will be able to do the same with that person.

 

[28 Gramz]

U do know X and jay had prior history

they were in a group

they were on the same label

saying jay z not having a identity is crazy

Irv said out his own mouth Jay changed his whole style after X came out. In 97 he was riding the Jiggy Bad Boy wave and got clowned for the Sunshine video. He saw X pop off with Swizz and added that sound to his bag.

 

[Cladyclad]

Irv said out his own mouth Jay changed his whole style after X came out. In 97 he was riding the Jiggy Bad Boy wave and got clowned for the Sunshine video. He saw X pop off with Swizz and added that sound to his bag.

So what song in 1998 jay made that he wouldn’t make in 97

 

[TheOptimisticCynikal]

1. Respectfully, how old are you? Because that comment about Future got me thinking you’re close to being a teenager.

2. If not Jay, then who? You’ve pointed out things that you say show why he’s not the GOAT. ok, so tell us who you think it is. I GUARANTEE I will be able to do the same with that person.

30s. JAY Z was my first understanding fully of what a rapper was in my mind and first rapper who I was genuinely a fan of.

Like in my previous comment, the GOAT debate is super multifaceted and how hip hop, well music, is hugely subjective, I feel like GOAT conversations are somewhat redundant, but I enjoy the dialogue and hearing different opinions. It's not like sports where there are clear winners and clear losers based on the outcome of physical performance that can far more easily be measured and there are obvious, fact and data-based top performers and performances based on dedication and discipline an athlete put in the gym that usually translates on the field.

Point is, Jay Z did not age well, and is somewhat a victim of living enough to become the villain.

Just about every current hip hop artist using auto tune (yeah, T-Pain technically "introduced" it to hip hop far as a technical part of artistry, delivery and production but Future made it the staple it is rn whether you think that's good or bad) and whose beats are heavy 808-based, took something from Future (he's not the GOAT to me but I feel he's downplayed because of non-music stuff).

I just dunno if I can say the same about Jay Z and being lyrical (maybe stacking entendres, but I feel that's as wild a take as the ones I've made on Future) and then when you consider he admits he dumbed his lyrics down to make more money, that's the Hip Hop GOAT?

Everytime he chose his capitalist interests over the black art form that gave him the opportunity to make that capital. Like another poster said, Jay Z comes across like he feels he's too good for Hip Hop except when it's convenient and this is who y'all wanna say is GOAT?

Him ducking 50 Cent and being super quiet during the 50 Bullies New York Hip Hop era too. I feel like we can keep going, but nah man, I'm done cause y'all won't believe me if I say I genuinely love Jay Z music despite saying all this

 

[Cladyclad]

30s. JAY Z was my first understanding fully of what a rapper was in my mind and first rapper who I was genuinely a fan of.

Like in my previous comment, the GOAT debate is super multifaceted and how hip hop, well music, is hugely subjective, I feel like GOAT conversations are somewhat redundant, but I enjoy the dialogue and hearing different opinions. It's not like sports where there are clear winners and clear losers based on the outcome of physical performance that can far more easily be measured and there are obvious, fact and data-based top performers and performances based on dedication and discipline an athlete put in the gym that usually translates on the field.

Point is, Jay Z did not age well, and is somewhat a victim of living enough to become the villain.

Just about every current hip hop artist using auto tune (yeah, T-Pain technically "introduced" it to hip hop far as a technical part of artistry, delivery and production but Future made it the staple it is rn whether you think that's good or bad) and whose beats are heavy 808-based, took something from Future (he's not the GOAT to me but I feel he's downplayed because of non-music stuff).

I just dunno if I can say the same about Jay Z and being lyrical (maybe stacking entendres, but I feel that's as wild a take as the ones I've made on Future) and then when you consider he admits he dumbed his lyrics down to make more money, that's the Hip Hop GOAT?

Everytime he chose his capitalist interests over the black art form that gave him the opportunity to make that capital. Like another poster said, Jay Z comes across like he feels he's too good for Hip Hop except when it's convenient and this is who y'all wanna say is GOAT?

Him ducking 50 Cent and being super quiet during the 50 Bullies New York Hip Hop era too. I feel like we can keep going, but nah man, I'm done cause y'all won't believe me if I say I genuinely love Jay Z music despite saying all this

So you know it’s subjective yet you write articles on why not

and literally so dumb points at that respectfully