Jay -Z being the undisputed goat is a narrative created by the corporations he works for
- Thread starter EBK String
- Start date
How he aint age well? if he drop an album this Friday it will do better than any Future album. Dude is almost 60
the stuff you said had nothing to with music lol
You can’t even find a legit reason he not lol
TheOptimisticCynikal
All Star
Eh. I'd wait and see, but if he dropped an album tomorrow I'd be happy af. Future drops every year. Multiple times even.
They're not legit reasons to you and that's okay man lol. Tbh, it's quite an innocent opinion to think someone isn't the GOAT. You didn't dispute any of my points, but that's okay too
Also, quick Google shows 4:44 sold around 250,000 while Future, who's arguably oversaturated af, sold about the same for We Don't Trust You give or take a few thousand copies. I Never Liked You same thing, but again, just a quick Google.
Also thought it was worth noting Reasonable Doubt sold 43,000 while Pluto sold 41,000 both their first projects (I don't even like using sales as a metric because we been know they cook the numbers in many different ways)
Would also like to point out I never offered Future as the GOAT
lol 444 didn’t have a first week (was a tidal and sprint exclusive)
that was his 2nd week lol
262k btw with no spotify
future would do Tyla numbers without spotify
HNIC973
R.I.P Bandana P
Hovenger defense force activated
And people are so dumb, they don't even realize they're putting him on a pedestal by making him the barometer for everything
Breh made 3 posts and dipped and this board is so stupid, they'll keep on doing the heavy lifting for him
He made himself visible to a bunch of different audiences since then. Pros and cons to that
True it is a subjective conversation. But I think you can make factual points to support your opinion. To say Jay-Z did not age well just sounds crazy though. I still hear him on the radio, at parties and blasting from cars. Just as much as anyone else from his era.30s. JAY Z was my first understanding fully of what a rapper was in my mind and first rapper who I was genuinely a fan of.
Like in my previous comment, the GOAT debate is super multifaceted and how hip hop, well music, is hugely subjective, I feel like GOAT conversations are somewhat redundant, but I enjoy the dialogue and hearing different opinions. It's not like sports where there are clear winners and clear losers based on the outcome of physical performance that can far more easily be measured and there are obvious, fact and data-based top performers and performances based on dedication and discipline an athlete put in the gym that usually translates on the field.
Point is, Jay Z did not age well, and is somewhat a victim of living enough to become the villain.
Just about every current hip hop artist using auto tune (yeah, T-Pain technically "introduced" it to hip hop far as a technical part of artistry, delivery and production but Future made it the staple it is rn whether you think that's good or bad) and whose beats are heavy 808-based, took something from Future (he's not the GOAT to me but I feel he's downplayed because of non-music stuff).
I just dunno if I can say the same about Jay Z and being lyrical (maybe stacking entendres, but I feel that's as wild a take as the ones I've made on Future) and then when you consider he admits he dumbed his lyrics down to make more money, that's the Hip Hop GOAT?
Everytime he chose his capitalist interests over the black art form that gave him the opportunity to make that capital. Like another poster said, Jay Z comes across like he feels he's too good for Hip Hop except when it's convenient and this is who y'all wanna say is GOAT?
Him ducking 50 Cent and being super quiet during the 50 Bullies New York Hip Hop era too. I feel like we can keep going, but nah man, I'm done cause y'all won't believe me if I say I genuinely love Jay Z music despite saying all this
Every rapper who has had commercial success has dumbed down their lyrics. Jay, Nas, BIG, everybody.
Not sure what you mean by "ducking 50 cent". When did that happen?
TheOptimisticCynikal
All Star
Is it really a wild take though? Business Insider, while not a music publication, feels it's not wild
Here Are The Exact Reasons Millennials Say They've Stopped Trusting Jay Z
Celebrity marketing expert Jeetendr Sehdev shares the responses millennials gave when they said they didn't find Jay Z authentic.
www.businessinsider.com
Those other rappers you named may do it, which I'm taking your word for tbh, I don't think they admitted it or made a bar about it.
Ducking 50 thing may be just my memory of it, but thinking of how he retired in early 2000s around when 50 would just be gaining power to go toe to toe with him, also JAY Z warning his own artist about 50 seemed more fear based, thus, ducking.
TheOptimisticCynikal
All Star
You hate Future and it shows man
Future was Future before Spotify. He built his name off street-fueled mixtapes, radio spins, co-signs (Dungeon Family) +, and a sound nobody else had at the time arguably—Auto-Tune crooning over trap beats. Add a nonstop work rate, and by the time streaming took over, he was already running his own lane.
Uhhh, did you read that article? First of all it's not about his music. Secondly, who are the people commenting? One of them said "I THINK he was a drug dealer". Whaaaattt? The fact that he was a drug dealer is only the foundation of his whole career. Yeah why would a fan know that right?Is it really a wild take though? Business Insider, while not a music publication, feels it's not wild
Here Are The Exact Reasons Millennials Say They've Stopped Trusting Jay Z
Celebrity marketing expert Jeetendr Sehdev shares the responses millennials gave when they said they didn't find Jay Z authentic.
Those other rappers you named may do it, which I'm taking your word for tbh, I don't think they admitted it or made a bar about it.
Ducking 50 thing may be just my memory of it, but thinking of how he retired in early 2000s around when 50 would just be gaining power to go toe to toe with him, also JAY Z warning his own artist about 50 seemed more fear based, thus, ducking.
Is the new generation into Jay as much as the older ones? Of course not. Is his music still routinely played in 2025? Yes.
Jay threw a few shots at 50 and then kept it moving. "I'm about a dollar what the fukk is 50 cent?"
Hova the God, I should be rapping with a turban
Haters can't disturb him, waiters can't serve him
Mike Jordan of rap, outside Jay working
Now watch how quickly I drop 50
I'm from the era where nikkas don't snitch
You from the era where snitchin' is the shyt
I'm afraid of the future (Why?)
Y'all respect the one who got shot, I respect the shooter (of course one of the things 50 is known for is gettin shot)
So when you say ducking 50 I'm like huh? Be clear, in a lyrical batlle, 50 gets destroyed. He loved to call out other rappers for not having money. Not gonna work here.
2ATMsYouSteppinOrWhat
Superstar
yeeee
TheOptimisticCynikal
All Star
I still feel like Jay Z subs never stuck against 50, nor to the fans was subs like that gonna do much against someone like 50. You rarely of ever hear the two other verses you mentioned brought up. Especially considering one of them from the album Kingdom Come was considered not good at the time of release.
Even rap genius said that bar about getting shot could apply to like 3 or 4 rappers Jay had problems with at the time
Everyone knows the "I'm about a dollar" bar and I guess you can include the watch me drop 50 bar as okay, he acknowledged 50, but when we consider in hindsight 50 Cent would reinvent the meaning of rap beef, are these really that scalding?
But okay man lol. I guess you've proved he never ducked 50, but it does feel underwhelming. Especially in hindsight.
The article I think adds to the argument and suggestion Jay Z not aging well or being the GOAT isn't a wild take. Only to y'all HOVengers. Respectfully