"Just because Communisim LOST...doesn't mean Capitilisim WON..."

[throughthefire]

Only partially true. The population was not willing to pay for the consequences of their lifestyle. Look at Greece. Those people nap in the middle of the work day.


so in you're saying countries wiht "lazy" populaces end up like greece lolol..what about japan then..one of hte hardest working countries in the world with salary men working from 9am to 9pm which is pretty normal out there but they're having one of hte worst debt crisis in this world...the thing is greence and all the other retarded euro countries who fukked themselves over voted corrupt politicians who bended to the will of banks and the upper class...the tax system in greece is a fukking joke...my opinion is that you CAN'T have a strong welfare system like the scandanavian countries and not pay for it

 

[the next guy]

Only partially true. The population was not willing to pay for the consequences of their lifestyle. Look at Greece. Those people nap in the middle of the work day.

so in you're saying countries wiht "lazy" populaces end up like greece lolol..what about japan then..one of hte hardest working countries in the world with salary men working from 9am to 9pm which is pretty normal out there but they're having one of hte worst debt crisis in this world...the thing is greence and all the other retarded euro countries who fukked themselves over voted corrupt politicians who bended to the will of banks and the upper class...the tax system in greece is a fukking joke...my opinion is that you CAN'T have a strong welfare system like the scandanavian countries and not pay for it

Can't disagree.

 

[daze23]

Can you tell me what superpowers have to do with the Red Scare? That was a domestic issue through and through. The only foreign aspect was the clamoring for t the ideology.

because it was framed around those ideologies, so anyone leaning towards the other ideology was seen as the enemy. it kind of exposed the fallacy of that thinking, since it was basically used as a blanket attack on 'the left'

it still goes on today, when people call Obama a "socialist". how did the commies lose when we have Obamacare?

 

[Type Username Here]

because it was framed around those ideologies, so anyone leaning towards the other ideology was seen as the enemy. it kind of exposed the fallacy of that thinking, since it was basically used as a blanket attack on 'the left'

it still goes on today, when people call Obama a "socialist". how did the commies lose when we have Obamacare?

I don't understand any of the points you think you made in this post. No disrespect meant, but can you restate it?

 

[theworldismine13]

The soviet union collapsed because of internal politics. The US survived because of bailouts. "Too big to fail?" And right now western Europe is about to double dip. Western Europe has some very socialist tendencies in the economic system. Not pure capitalism.

When I say pure capitalism, I mean no welfare. The market handles 100 percent of the economy. No safety net. For people or companies.

but the bailout came from capitalism and was self financed, so the point is the US never collapsed, so capitalism has proven to be better than communism

every country has internal politcs, and internal politics do not happen in a vacuum, the internal politics that destroyed the soviet unions happened because the soviet union was broke, and it could not bail itself out the way the US did, so fundamentally the soviet union broke up because it couldn't sustain itself

i dont see what western europe having a double dip and having socialist policies have to with anything

pure capitalism says nothing about welfare, capitalism can exist with or with out welfare, it is correct that the us is not purely capitalist but that is because the government does own some property and it does interfere with the economy, like the bailouts for instance, but welfare and capitalism are not mutually exclusive

the fundamental difference between capitalism and communism has to do with private property and government control of the economy, i think maybe you are confusing communism with socialism

 

[Type Username Here]

but the bailout came from capitalism and was self financed, so the point is the US never collapsed, so capitalism has proven to be better than communism

Source?


Last time I checked it came from Taxpayer money, which would be a redistribution of wealth and also violating free market principles (i.e., choosing what businesses succeed).

Have you no shame regurgitating this nonsense?

 

[daze23]

I don't understand any of the points you think you made in this post. No disrespect meant, but can you restate it?

that none of these examples from history represent a true competition of the ideologies in question

 

[theworldismine13]

Source?


Last time I checked it came from Taxpayer money, which would be a redistribution of wealth and also violating free market principles (i.e., choosing what businesses succeed).

Have you no shame regurgitating this nonsense?

what? if the us government is getting money from us taxpayers then that means the us government is self financed, maybe you are confused

and i never said the us was a purely capitalistic country, i just stated that it wasnt, to be honest im not sure how to categorize the bailout, but it was the wealth gained from capitalism that allowed the bailout, that was my point

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

so in you're saying countries wiht "lazy" populaces end up like greece lolol..what about japan then..one of hte hardest working countries in the world with salary men working from 9am to 9pm which is pretty normal out there but they're having one of hte worst debt crisis in this world..t

japan is what happens when you nationalize the banks. the new prime minister (or whatever he is) seems like he knows what he's doing. and the devaluing of their currency should of been done a decade ago.

 

[Type Username Here]

what? if the us government is getting money from us taxpayers then that means the us government is self financed, maybe you are confused

and i never said the us was a purely capitalistic country, i just stated that it wasnt, to be honest im not sure how to categorize the bailout, but it was the wealth gained from capitalism that allowed the bailout, that was my point

This is a new low for you. You're straight up playing re-definition gymnastics.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Both lost because they're both run demonically.

 

[theworldismine13]

This is a new low for you. You're straight up playing re-definition gymnastics.

lol, im not playing gymnastics, the us government gets its money from the american taxpayer, it always has, the only way you can say the bailout was not self financed is if the us government was using money from non us tax payers

the us taxpayer pays for everything the us government does, its always been that way and that includes the bailout

 

[throughthefire]

japan is what happens when you nationalize the banks. the new prime minister (or whatever he is) seems like he knows what he's doing. and the devaluing of their currency should of been done a decade ago.

um the big four japanese banks are all stock holder's owned aka private banks

 

[Domingo Halliburton]

um the big four japanese banks are all stock holder's owned aka private banks

I'm talking about the late 80 and the 90s they basically had a housing bubble like america did in 2008. nationalized one of the big ones.

 

[TrueEpic08]

@TrueEpic08 bless us with your thoughts if you have time, please.

@The Real and others kinda got it right on the first page...a statement such as this one (saying that Capitalism won, or that Communism fell, or that just because Communism fell, Capitalism won) is totally irrelevant because it speaks in vast generalities, and ignores nuances and situations where the two modes have melded into one another (Social Democracy, aspects of Eurocommunism, Welfare State politics, hell, the Soviet Union still participated in the global economy, which was avowedly Capitalist). There's just no point to arguing the merits and lack therof of such a statement without making delineations:

Which Capitalism? Which Communism? Did Communism really ever exist?

I admit that I haven't read through the entirety of the thread, but I actually saw it (yes, I do still read the forum every day, more or less) when it was first made and stayed away from it, largely because the statement was too general.

Beyond that though, determining what is Capitalist and what is Communist, and (more relevantly to the quote) whether the two are actually as incompatible in practice as Cold War derived ideologies would like to see them is vitally important to answering the question. It's much less simple than most would like to believe.