Just so we're clear on what and who the Moors are

[Bawon Samedi]

Regardless, without the moors in Europe, the Europeans wouldn't have known about West Africa and they also played a big role at the beginning. And weren't the moors the same people who invaded Timbuktu and captured Ahmad Baba, one of its greatest scholars, and destroyed part of its libraries? Moors are the greatest race traitors. So I don't understand why people are defending them on this thread. Yes, they achieved a lot in Europe and they were black. But that doesn't negate what they did when they left Europe.

Europeans were already in West Africa prior to the Atlantic slave trade. Like I said before you had Jewish, Italian and Iberian merchants in Upper West African cities like Gao. Italians and Iberians for example LOOOOOONG had maps of Upper West Africa since the 14th century. And it was not Moors who told Europeans about coastal West Africa but the people who inhabit the lands that were once Ghana, Mali and Songhay i.e the Western Sudan. After the Mali empire defeated the Portuguese, the Malians opened up trade with them. Who then ventured further south. And the Moroccans who invaded Songhay at the time was controlled by Arab elites. Berbers long then lost control to the Arabs. And during that time those same Black Berbers were being oppressed by Arabs in Morocco.

Lastly if we're going to talk about race traders then like me, @Akan and @Grano-Grano you can't ignore coastal West Africans selling fellow Africans in large numbers and their economy being based off slave trading. Like I said you can't have it one way.

This whole crap about "race traitors" is silly, especially when you had Africans referring to other Africans like the Fulani as "white people." Kongolese people siding with the Portuguese to take out another rival. Or Abyssinians(Ethiopians) siding with the SAME Portuguese who laid ruin to the Swahili coast civilization. So why the heck are the Moors even singled out? Morocco and Songhay been had rivalry and Songhay has had many wins over Morocco until the invasion.

 

[Dzali OG]

Haven't responded to the recent posts but must comment on the viee that an attack is being made on islam. Which isn't the point.

I lump christianity and islam together since they were both controlled and distributed by the Roman empire. They're no different than the democrat/republican paradigm.

 

[Bonk]

Europeans were already in West Africa prior to the Atlantic slave trade. Like I said before you had Jewish, Italian and Iberian merchants in Upper West African cities like Gao. Italians and Iberians for example LOOOOOONG had maps of Upper West Africa since the 14th century. And it was not Moors who told Europeans about coastal West Africa but the people who inhabit the lands that were once Ghana, Mali and Songhay i.e the Western Sudan. After the Mali empire defeated the Portuguese, the Malians opened up trade with them. Who then ventured further south. And the Moroccans who invaded Songhay at the time was controlled by Arab elites. Berbers long then lost control to the Arabs. And during that time those same Black Berbers were being oppressed by Arabs in Morocco.

Lastly if we're going to talk about race traders then like me, @Akan and @Grano-Grano you can't ignore coastal West Africans selling fellow Africans in large numbers and their economy being based off slave trading. Like I said you can't have it one way.

This whole crap about "race traitors" is silly, especially when you had Africans referring to other Africans like the Fulani as "white people." Kongolese people siding with the Portuguese to take out another rival. Or Abyssinians(Ethiopians) siding with the SAME Portuguese who laid ruin to the Swahili coast civilization. So why the heck are the Moors even singled out? Morocco and Songhay been had rivalry and Songhay has had many wins over Morocco until the invasion.

I never said they weren't. And the first Europeans that came to West Africa, the Portuguese, were from the Iberian peninsula and the sailor was a moor and they used the moorish atlas.

Also, Italians and Iberians who had the map got it from the moors. And why are you bringing a Somali, Grano-Grano, whose only interest in West Africa, is Islam, into it? What does he know about West African history?

 

[Grano-Grano]

Haven't responded to the recent posts but must comment on the viee that an attack is being made on islam. Which isn't the point.

I lump christianity and islam together since they were both controlled and distributed by the Roman empire. They're no different than the democrat/republican paradigm.

The Eastern Roman empire hated Islam wtf you talking about?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I never said they weren't. And the first Europeans that came to West Africa, the Portuguese, were from the Iberian peninsula and the sailor was a moor and they used the moorish atlas.

No, I like said there were Iberian and Italian merchants in Upper West African cities since the 13th century. Yeah, they got the knowledge from the Moors. But point is... They had that knowledge WAY BEFORE the Atlantic slave trade. They had connections to non-Moorish Muslim West Africans well before the Atlantic slave trade. And that Moorish sailor was a slave like most the Moors who were defeated after the Iberians took back their kingdom.

Also, Italians and Iberians who had the map got it from the moors. And why are you bringing a Somali, Grano-Grano, whose only interest in West Africa, is Islam, into it? What does he know about West African history?

Not sure what you are talking about? I brought up him and Akan because they bought agreed that you also can't ignore non-Muslim coastal West Africans selling other blacks into slavery in large numbers. So who really is "the race traitors" is we wanna go that route. Europeans had knowledge of West Africa well before the slave trade. Is is becoming clear that the Romans knew about West Africa and had trade with them.

 

[Bonk]

No, I like said there were Iberian and Italian merchants in Upper West African cities since the 13th century. Yeah, they got the knowledge from the Moors. But point is... They had that knowledge WAY BEFORE the Atlantic slave trade. They had connections to non-Moorish Muslim West Africans well before the Atlantic slave trade. And that Moorish sailor was a slave like most the Moors who were defeated after the Iberians took back their kingdom.

Not sure what you are talking about? I brought up him and Akan because they bought agreed that you also can't ignore non-Muslim coastal West Africans selling other blacks into slavery in large numbers. So who really is "the race traitors" is we wanna go that route. Europeans had knowledge of West Africa well before the slave trade. Is is becoming clear that the Romans knew about West Africa and had trade with them.

Stop the revisionism and pseudo-history. There were no Iberian and Italian merchants anywhere in upper West Africa, until Mungo Park in the 18th century. The first encounter West Africans had with Europeans came via the coast. And the first skirmishes happened in 1444 on the coast when the Portuguese slave raiders and their vessels came to capture slaves and they were defeated by Malians. Hence the Portuguese moved their raids to Senegambia.

No, the Moorish sailor wasn't a slave and not all Moors were kicked out of Europe. Some were allowed to stay and he was one of the ones who were allowed to stay. C'mon, there were Moorish nobilities all over Europe until the 19th century, even in England. So how do you mean the Moorish sailor was a slave?

No one is saying coastal Africans weren't complicit in the slave trade. Slavery was happening in West Africa before the Europeans came. Slaves were spoils of wars and once a kingdom is defeated, the victor captures slaves. And the slaves were enlisted into armies and they also work on farms. However, slaves had the same rights as citizens and some rose in ranks to become generals/commanders in armies. But they just weren't allowed to rule or marry into royalty.

That said, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Moors led Europeans to West Africa and they were traitors. Those were the same people who destroyed Timbuktu - captured Ahmad Baba (the greatest scholar in Timbuktu) and took him away all because he said their type of Islam isn't the same as Timbuktu's and they're desecrating the place. Those fukkers are no different from the Islamists running around everywhere in West Africa today.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Stop the revisionism and pseudo-history. There were no Iberian and Italian merchants anywhere in upper West Africa, until Mungo Park in the 18th century. The first encounter West Africans had with Europeans came via the coast. And the first skirmishes happened in 1444 on the coast when the Portuguese slave traders and their vessels and they were defeated by Malians. Hence the Portuguese moved their raids to Senegambia.

Psuedo-history??? Revisionism? I'm not the freaking one trying to claim Congolese soldiers or Nigerians apart of the British royal army were "Moors helping Europeans colonize Africa" you idiot. Pick up a book about medieval Africa. There WERE Italian, Iberian and Jewish merchants in the city of Gao for example.

@Don Drogo if you're here can you post that source? I can't find it about there being Italian living quarters in Gao.

No, the Moorish sailor wasn't a slave and not all Moors were kicked out of Europe. Some were allowed to stay and he was one of the ones who were allowed to stay. C'mon, there were Moorish nobilities all over Europe until the 19th century, even in England. So how do you mean the Moorish sailor was a slave?

How about you pick up a damn book before trying to lecture.

Esteban, an enslaved North African, made the first contact with the native peoples of what is now the American Southwest. Fraught with misunderstandings, that encounter led to Esteban’s untimely demise in 1539 and prefigured the violence that would characterize the Spanish conquest and subsequent colonization of the region.

Esteban (? - 1539) | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

This was right after the Iberians defeated the Moors and took some as slaves.

Esteban who yall commonly refer to that Moorish sailor was a slave.

No one is saying coastal Africans weren't complicit in the slave trade. Slavery was happening in West Africa before the Europeans came. Slaves were spoils of wars and once a kingdom is defeated, the victor captures slaves. And the slaves were enlisted into armies and they also work on farms. However, slaves had the same rights as citizens and some rose in ranks to become generals/commanders in armies. But they just weren't allowed to rule or marry into royalty.

Of course you as a Coastal West African is going to say, "buh! buh! At least they had rights as a normal citizen." No they actually sold other blacks in large numbers to the Europeans for guns and alcohol and their economy was based on slavery. There is zero proof of the Moors even doing anything on that level.

That said, it has nothing to do with the fact that the Moors led Europeans to West Africa and they were traitors. Those were the same people who destroyed Timbuktu - captured Ahmad Baba (the greatest scholar in Timbuktu) and took him away all because he said their type of Islam isn't the same as Timbuktu's and they're desecrating the place. Those fukkers are no different from the Islamists running around everywhere in West Africa today.

How about you fetch us proof that the Moors led the Europeans into West Africa. Even if they did, then Moors did not hold a musket to those West Africans to force them to sell slaves to Europeans. Like I said you can't have it both ways. Second, I already said the Moroccans that invaded Songhay were under the control of Arab elites. I find it funny you complain about the bolded, while at the same time complaining about Moroccans invading an ISLAMIC CITY like Timbuktu. Which one is it? Those Islamic radicals terrorizing the Sahel region of West Africa DESCEND from the people of Timbuktu. lol. Heck they're the very same people who founded the city. So which one is it?

Anyways stop ignoring this...

The empire grew during the eighteenth century, as it became more involved in slave trading. Oyo also maintained it traditional position as brokers and traders between Yorubas to the south and Hausas to the north. Enslaved laborers provided food for the empire from their work on Oyo royal farms. Surplus labor, when available, was sold to the Atlantic coast.

In the late eighteenth century, the empire came to rely too much on slave sales to Europeans—when the trade decline and eventually ended, Oyo suffered. As the state’s income and authority declined, some of its subjects began to rebel. The empire eventually fell to the superior forces of the Fulani Empire from northern Nigeria in 1835.

Oyo Empire | Slavery and Remembrance

^^I'm gonna keep throwing that in you guys faces.

 

[Sinnerman]

@Diasporan Royalty

In all these centers foreign nationals had their own quarters in which they could live in the utmost security with their goods, while pursuing their business. 6 For the most part these were Arabs from North Africa, Egypt, and Yemen, and Europeans, especially Spaniards. Some of them were even students in Timbuktu, as will be seen later.

this one? I had another quote, from another book which goes into further detail on this, but it's not on my kindle like the Diop one.

 

[Bonk]

Psuedo-history??? Revisionism? I'm not the freaking one trying to claim Congolese soldiers or Nigerians apart of the British royal army were "Moors helping Europeans colonize Africa" you idiot. Pick up a book about medieval Africa. There WERE Italian, Iberian and Jewish merchants in the city of Gao for example.

@Don Drogo if you're here can you post that source? I can't find it about there being Italian living quarters in Gao.


How about you pick up a damn book before trying to lecture.

Esteban (? - 1539) | The Black Past: Remembered and Reclaimed

This was right after the Iberians defeated the Moors and took some as slaves.

Of course you as a Coastal West African is going to say, "buh! buh! At least they had rights as a normal citizen." No they actually sold other blacks in large numbers to the Europeans for guns and alcohol and their economy was based on slavery. There is zero proof of the Moors even doing anything on that level.



How about you fetch us proof that the Moors led the Europeans into West Africa. Even if they did, then Moors did not hold a musket to those West Africans to force them to sell slaves to Europeans. Like I said you can't have it both ways. Second, I already said the Moroccans that invaded Songhay were under the control of Arab elites. I find it funny complain about the bolded, while at the same time complaining about Moroccans invading an ISLAMIC CITY like Timbuktu.

Anyways stop ignoring this...

Oyo Empire | Slavery and Remembrance

^^I'm gonna keep throwing that in you guys faces.

You're an emotional blockhead. This is why your dumbass couldn't get into a decent University and your ass had to settle for some shytty college in Brooklyn. Don't be arguing with folks far above you and who graduated with honors from Universities you'll never get into. You can bamboozle the weirdos and smart-dumb nikkas on here with your copy and paste pseudo-history, but don't bring that shyt around me.

Moors brought Europeans to West Africa. They were the sailors and they owned the atlas. And that means they were part of the slaves raiders in the earliest part of trans-atlantic slavery. Once slave trading became big - they were also the middlemen. This thread is about Moors (I don't give a shyt about what Oyo did, when there's a topic about Oyo empire - we shall discuss how complicit it was in the slave trade and overblown importance of an empire that wasn't even anywhere near the coast) and those fukkers were race traitors. End of. Fukk out of here.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

@Diasporan Royalty



this one? I had another quote, from another book which goes into further detail on this, but it's not on my kindle like the Diop one.

I don't think that one. It was about Italian merchants in Gao and their living area. But this one is also good. lol.

 

[Bonk]

And stop quoting me with your fakkit ass.

I don't quote your dumbass and the only thing I owe you is to knock half of your face in and spit on you.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

You're an emotional blockhead. This is why your dumbass couldn't get into a decent University and your ass had to settle for some shytty college in Brooklyn. Do be arguing with folks far above you and who graduated with honors from Universities you'll never get into. You can bamboozle the weirdos and smart-dumb nikkas on here with your copy and paste pseudo-history, but don't bring that shyt around me.

Translation: I have no argument. I lost.

Here is more for you.

The wealth of Oyo depended on slaves captured during warfare, used on royal farmlands. Overtime, an overflow of slaves from conquest would be sold to Europeans for goods--firearms, cloth, cowries. European goods would also be traded north in Hausaland. Trade running through the empire from the coast to Hausaland would also be taxed.

Oyo Empire - Afropedea


lol... Were the Oyo people "race traitors" or not? And what shytty college are you even talking about??? How do you even know what school or degree I am studying? Like I said no arguments. Just crybaby beta shyt when checked. Don't worry this always happens when I check posters.

Moors brought Europeans to West Africa.

Once again fetch me sources. Moron.

They were the sailors and they owned the atlas.

Already showed your slow ass that the Moors who aided Columbus were slaves. Next?

And that means they were part of the slaves raiders in the earliest part of trans-atlantic slavery. Once slave trading became big - they were also the middlemen.

The only slave raiders those Barbary Pirates were doing were against Europeans. This is widely known.

Next?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

And stop quoting me with your fakkit ass.

I don't quote your dumbass and the only thing I owe you is to knock half of your face in and spit on you.

Beta bytch mentality. Look at you crying all over the place. I'll quote and CHECK whoever the hell I choose when dumbass info is being posted.

And your old midget ass would get bodied. So don't even try.

 

[Bonk]

This airhead is an idiot. No one is arguing that Oyo and a lot of the other coastal groups in West Africa didn't sell slaves. The Bight of Benin where Oyo slaves went through via Allada wasn't even the top-5 slave coast during Oyo's reign. The biggest slave coast in West Africa was the Bight of Biafra and it was only second to Kongo. Bight of Benin became a big slave coast after the collapse of Oyo which coincides with the rise of Dahomey and the Yoruba internecine wars.

However, without the arrival of Europeans on the coast of West Africa led by the Moors, there wouldn't have been transatlantic slavery. This was slavery in West Africa way before the Europeans got there, just like everywhere else in the world because chattel slavery has always been part of human history. But transatlantic slavery started with the arrival of the Europeans led by the Moors. And this is what this thread is about, fakkit.

You probably want to die young. You know I don't like you - just keep punching above your height and running around recklessly, jumping into shyt I never invited you to. I'll say less. But stop quoting me. Stick to your community college and half-baked people on your level.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

This airhead is an idiot. No one is arguing that Oyo and a lot of the other coastal groups in West Africa didn't sell slaves. The Bight of Benin where Oyo slaves went through via Allada wasn't even the top-5 slave coast during Oyo's reign. The biggest slave coast in West Africa was the Bight of Biafra and it was only second to Kongo. Bight of Benin became a big slave coast after the collapse of Oyo which coincides with the rise of Dahomey and the Yoruba internecine wars.

However, without the arrival of Europeans on the coast of West Africa led by the Moors, there wouldn't have been transatlantic slavery. This was slavery in West Africa way before the Europeans got there, just like everywhere else in the world because chattel slavery has always been part of human history. But transatlantic slavery started with the arrival of the Europeans led by the Moors. And this is what this thread is about, fakkit

Point is you moron, is that you can't talk about the Moors being "the biggest race traders" when coastal West Africans were selling their very OWN to Europeans for some DAMN muskets, alcohols, jewelry and other trivial shyt. No one as of yet has shown proof that Moors did anything on that level or this imaginary shyt about the Moors aiding Euros to colonize Africa.

You probably want to die young. You know I don't like you - just keep punching above your height and running around recklessly, jumping into shyt I never invited you to. I'll say less. But stop quoting me. Stick to your community college and half-baked people on your level.

I don't care if you don't like me. Some random on the internet. You come off bytch made, "You know I don't like you..." I have many people on the net say they want to shoot, stab, jump me, etc? How is what you're saying any different? Die young? I bet neither you or your fam are carrying. Nah... You're just mad you got checked which is why you doing all this corny E-thuggin. I doubt you even been in many fights.