Just what was Microsoft thinking?

[5n0man]

No sorry you're wrong.

The industry is in trouble. In order to "win" with consumers you must run a business that looses money.

Well of course Microsoft is gonna make more, as it is they receive alot more revenue for Live, profits go up and down every year but doesn't mean it's not profitable. Profits were still made

In order to win you have to find a way to create a business that keeps consumers happy first and foremost. They are always the most important gear and you don't push all the problems onto them.

Edit: that graph actually points out what I said, look at the decrease in other divisions compared to sony's gaming division.

 

[Kodie]

We saved GameStop and sent the industry further down its downward spiral.

I don't agree with your premise that lack of DRM and abundance of used games is what's causing a downward spiral in the first place. The problem is everybody is trying to get the next Modern Warfare and spending way too much in their efforts to do so. Ask yourself why no-DRM indie games are still in a solid place while the rest of the industry is struggling? It's because they don't spend beyond their means and they have a true connection with their base.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

I don't agree with your premise that lack of DRM and abundance of used games is what's causing a downward spiral in the first place. The problem is everybody is trying to get the next Modern Warfare and spending way too much in their efforts to do so. Ask yourself why no-DRM indie games are still in a solid place?

Because they are all digital. They have built in drm.

And indie developers are having problems turning a profit as well.

 

[Kodie]

Because they are all digital. They have built in drm.

And indie developers are having problems turning a profit as well.

There are a lot of significant indies that have been available at some point or another with no DRM (like anything that's been in Humble Bundle). Just because something is digital doesn't mean there's DRM. That's not what DRM means. There are indie developers that are having problems sure. Every industry, especially entertainment, is going to have good product makers suffering. Especially in a recession (which we're still in)!. The difference is, in the AAA side of things, you can sell 2-5 million copies and still need to layoff half your staff. WTF is that? That's not the fault of the consumers. That's the fault of the game makers. Consumers bought your game in droves and it wasn't enough. Stop blaming used sales. Stop blaming piracy. Stop acting like the consumer is doing something wrong and start looking within.

There are more success stories in indies now than there are in AAA. Gunpoint was Tom Francis' first game and it made him enough money that he can do game dev full time for a long time to come. Minecraft is the indie Modern Warfare and now Notch and his company on Mojang are sitting on so much money they could pay everyone's salary for years and not put out another noteworthy product.

 

[King Sun]

I like the implied notion that if drm was around publishers will make more money. Mind you used games have been around for a while. Dev's need to stop spending millions and millions of dollars on games.

 

[daze23]

to be clear, no console is gonna have "no DRM" like gog.com

 

[Kodie]

I like the implied notion that if drm was around publishers will make more money. Mind you used games have been around for a while. Dev's need to stop spending millions and millions of dollars on games.

Exactly. Spending so much money has also removed all innovation and risk which further compounds the issue by making games more homogeneous which in turn alienates gamers. Who wants to play Homefront when we have Call of Duty and Battlefield? Who wants to play a Mass Effect that plays more like Call of Duty than Mass Effect? Look at Square and Hitman. Hitman sold 2M copies but they said it sold "below expectations". So what's the solution to this problem? They lay off half the staff and then cancel every project OTHER THAN MORE HITMAN. How does that seem like a viable solution? That just seems like you're digging a hole to me.

 

[Kodie]

to be clear, no console is gonna have "no DRM" like gog.com

Yeah this is absolutely true. I don't mean to say there should be no DRM. Just that XBox One's previous solution of phoning home every 24 hours is not helpful to anyone.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Well of course Microsoft is gonna make more, as it is they receive alot more revenue for Live, profits go up and down every year but doesn't mean it's not profitable. Profits were still made

I'm sorry your still wrong. 2010 and 2011 were the only profitable years for Sony games division, but overall Sony has lost money on the entire ps3 project.

In order to win you have to find a way to create a business that keeps consumers happy first and foremost. They are always the most important gear and you don't push all the problems onto them.

Consumers are happy when they get what they want, but sometimes consumers don't understand what needs to happen for them to get it.

 

[daze23]

Dev's need to stop spending millions and millions of dollars on games.

that goes both ways though (nohomo). there's plenty of people that won't take a game seriously if it doesn't have big-name voice actors, a hans zimmerman score, and all the trappings of a big budget movie

I don't mean to call people out, but I feel like people are getting on this 'support indie games' bandwagon, but not even supporting indie games (usually because it's suits some narrative within the 'console-wars')

Did you make this game or something. I dont think anyones interesting in this game. I dunno man, it looks kinda garbage.

it's also true of asking for more 'original' and 'creative' games. everyone gets on that raw raw, but then spends their money on the same rehashed crap

 

[MeachTheMonster]

There are a lot of significant indies that have been available at some point or another with no DRM (like anything that's been in Humble Bundle). Just because something is digital doesn't mean there's DRM. That's not what DRM means. There are indie developers that are having problems sure. Every industry, especially entertainment, is going to have good product makers suffering. Especially in a recession (which we're still in)!. The difference is, in the AAA side of things, you can sell 2-5 million copies and still need to layoff half your staff. WTF is that? That's not the fault of the consumers. That's the fault of the game makers. Consumers bought your game in droves and it wasn't enough. Stop blaming used sales. Stop blaming piracy. Stop acting like the consumer is doing something wrong and start looking within.

There are more success stories in indies now than there are in AAA. Gunpoint was Tom Francis' first game and it made him enough money that he can do game dev full time for a long time to come. Minecraft is the indie Modern Warfare and now Notch and his company on Mojang are sitting on so much money they could pay everyone's salary for years and not put out another noteworthy product.

I think you have a misunderstanding of what drm is. It can be handled in many different ways and online check ins are only one of them. Digital games inherently have their own drm because you can't share them.

The problem with the bolded is that consumers expect those big budget experiences but they aren't willing to pay more. Prices have gone up for EVERYTHING over the last 12-15 years yet game prices have stayed the same. In your idea of lowering costs, then we'd be stuck with games that would have less resources and work put into them than games had 12-15 years ago. It's easy to sit on the Internet and say "they should lower costs" but none of us really want to be playing a bunch of low budget titles.

 

[Kodie]

that goes both ways though (nohomo). there's plenty of people that won't take a game seriously if it doesn't have big-name voice actors, a hans zimmerman score, and all the trappings of a big budget movie

I don't mean to call people out, but I feel like people are getting on this 'support indie games' bandwagon, but not even supporting indie games (usually because it's suits some narrative within the 'console-wars')



it's also true of asking for more 'original' and 'creative' games. everyone gets on that raw raw, but then spends their money on the same rehashed crap

Feel free to call me out if you're talking about me but I don't think u r

 

[daze23]

Feel free to call me out if you're talking about me but I don't think u r

nah, definitely not you

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

that goes both ways though (nohomo). there's plenty of people that won't take a game seriously if it doesn't have big-name voice actors, a hans zimmerman score, and all the trappings of a big budget movie

I don't mean to call people out, but I feel like people are getting on this 'support indie games' bandwagon, but not even supporting indie games (usually because it's suits some narrative within the 'console-wars')



it's also true of asking for more 'original' and 'creative' games. everyone gets on that raw raw, but then spends their money on the same rehashed crap

Exactly. The same clowns that are saying devs shouldn't spend so much on games are the same clowns fawning over big budget games like Last of Us that likely costs tens of millons to create. At the end of the day, because of consumers obesssion with more and more powerful machines (DDR5) devs are forced to spend significantly more money paying programmers to take advantage of these super computer features.

Sony stans will eventually kill the console gaming industry.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Feel free to call me out if you're talking about me but I don't think u r

It's all the Sony fans. Y'all call uc2 and TLOU goat games. But those are just the types of games we won't get anymore if developers just "quit spending so much money"