Kentucky GOP Leader Thinks Fetal Viability Begins at Conception

[bsmooth]

Canada bless


No legal restrictions and publicly funded abortions, health issue dealt with by doctors and their patients and not religious nut-head politicians

 

[David_TheMan]

Canada bless


No legal restrictions and publicly funded abortions, health issue dealt with by doctors and their patients and not religious nut-head politicians

If you are going to take people's money I wold say the payers definitely should have a say on what it is being spent on.

 

[Maschine_Man]

Personal accountability is always present, but no one has a right to force someone to do something against their will in an effort to hammer home your own personal values. In my view.
Sex is optional, but the woman's body is still hers to control entirely and she never gives that control away.
She has 100% the right to control her body period, the child's life doesn't suddenly take priority over her life, and the argument that the state or outside parties can usurp control of the pregnant mother's body acting on the will of the child, is specious at best considering there is no way we can even determine what the child wants because it can not communicate, and even if it could it can't demand anything of the mother with with the threat of force.

After a voluntary labor and birth if we want to say the child should be taken away fine, after proving offense and abuse, but until that time comes, again I have yet to see you provide a argument as to how the government can seize control of a woman's body, especially the argument you presented about a woman not being mentally competant to make that decision because of the pregnancy itself.

I don't see why there is a time limit on someone's self ownership of their body, either their body is theirs to do what they want with or it isn't and that power belongs to someone else and they are just a rentor of their own body. I don't subscribe to the latter view.

When a woman decides to get pregnant and take on another life, then she has taken on a whole new responsibility than just her body.

Why doesn't that baby have a right to live? Who is responsible for that babies rights if the mother decides she can't handle it?
Why is a 1 week old baby treated different? Or is it in your mind.

Yea yea, I'm all for the woman's right, and yes it is her body, but it's not JUST her body at some point.

 

[Pull Up the Roots]

Late-term abortions are rare, make up 1% of abortions performed yearly, and are done in certain, extreme cases. Stop with the scaremongering @The_One

Birth Defects

This could range from Down syndrome to anomalies incompatible with life. The generally accepted limit of viability is 24 weeks so before that gestational age abortions can happen for any reason. After 18 or so weeks the options are an induction of labor or a dilation or an evacuation (or D and E), which is a surgery. With induction it can take a few days as labor can be hard to trigger so early. If all goes well the cervix dilates and the fetus delivers. Sometimes indictions fail because you can’t always get such a premature uterus to contract. With a D and E the cervix is dilated, with the help of medication, instruments or both, and the fetus is removed. The fetus is essentially taken apart with a D and E to fit through the dilated cervix (the cervix is dilated less with a D and E than for an induction). This is no secret to the women having the procedure. This is also no ripping, there is simply surgical technique. Women know they were pregnant before the procedure and that they were not after and trust me they don’t think their doctor waved a magic wand or had a time turner.

After 24 weeks birth defects that lead to abortion are very severe and typically considered incompatible with life. These procedures are either a traditional induction, just like labor, or something that requires instrumentation. Because of the nonsensical partial birth abortion law women who wish to have a dilation and extraction (a modified technique for more advanced procedures) need to have fetal cardiac activity stopped with an injection into the uterus. Either way it’s a 2 or 3 day or even 4 process to get the cervix to dilate enough. The further along in the pregnancy, the more likely the procedure will be an induction of labor, but a skilled practitoner can do a dilation and extraction at 32 or 34 weeks. I’ve never heard of a dilation and extraction for any other reason than severe birth defects and often it is for a woman who has had two or three c-sections for whom inducing labor might pose other health hazards, like uterine rupture. Are we to force women to have c-sections for a pregnancy that is not compatible with life?

Why do some women end up with these procedures later on in their pregnancy? Sometimes it can take weeks or even longer to fully understand what is going on with the fetus. Some patients might think they can make it to term and then at 34 weeks cave and ask to be delivered because they just can’t bear one more person asking them about their baby. Do they just smile and walk away or say, “Well, actually, my baby has no brain and will die at birth?” Some women go to term and others can’t. To judge these women for requesting an early delivery is cruel on so many levels. I wrote more about it here if you are interested. Regardless, terminations for birth defects isn’t ripping “the baby out of the womb in the ninth month.” At 38 or 39 weeks it’s always an induction and is simply called a delivery.

Health of the Mother

This definitely happens between 20 and 24 weeks. The most likely scenario is ruptured membranes and an infection in the uterus. The treatment of this is delivery or the infection will spread and kill the mother, however, someone with lupus or renal disease or heart disease (for example) could have a deterioration of their health and with their providers make the decision to have a termination. After 25 weeks this would simply be a c-section or an induction of labor and the baby would go to the neonatal intensive care unit. Between 24-25 weeks there could be some leeway as conditions that are serious enough to require delivery at 24 weeks often also have devastating effects on the fetus. For example, the fetus could be so severely growth restricted making viability at 24 weeks unlikely and a woman with a severe heart condition may not elect to risk her health with a c-section for a likely non viable pregnancy and choose a termination. These are difficult and nuanced decisions and everyone is simply working together to make the best decision for the pregnant person. I don’t know where Mrs. Clinton got this “bad news at the end” of the pregnancy being about maternal health. I have only ever heard of one very late abortion for maternal health and that was for the rape of a minor by her brother and that was still not at term.

So no one is performing health of the mother abortions at 38 or 39 weeks we just do deliveries. It’s called obstetrics.

Other

Some of the 0.3% of abortions after 21 weeks will be for personal reasons. Often these are called elective abortions, but I don’t like that term. Usually this happens when it took too long to find a clinic and raise the money. These abortions happen before 24 weeks. There is no ninth month action here either.

No, Late-Term Abortions Don't 'Rip' Babies Out Of Wombs -- And They Exist For A Reason

5 Facts About Late-Term Abortions That Show Why Trump's Description Was Inaccurate

How Many Late-Term Abortions Are Performed Each Year? They're As Rare As Fatal Snake Bites

 

[Jimi Swagger]

Technically it's a parasite that cannot survive outside of the host until the 28th week or so. The Pro-Lifers, Bible Thumpers, and Hoteps can go to hell with guilting people into keeping unwanted and often unplanned children who will more than likely turn into burdens of the State and grandma/auntie's living room floor.

 

[David_TheMan]

When a woman decides to get pregnant and take on another life, then she has taken on a whole new responsibility than just her body.

Why doesn't that baby have a right to live? Who is responsible for that babies rights if the mother decides she can't handle it?
Why is a 1 week old baby treated different? Or is it in your mind.

Yea yea, I'm all for the woman's right, and yes it is her body, but it's not JUST her body at some point.

Sorry but no responsibility gives the government or non carriers the ability to insert their preference over that of the person carrying the child. Yes the mother has a very big responsibility in carrying her child, but that is a responsiblity she always has the right of carrying through or choosing not to, it is her body and that doesn't change.

Baby has a right to live, it has no right to enslave the mother and usurp her control over her body, it doesn't have this control after its born, so it definitely doesn't have that right before it is born.

The baby's right will never usurp ownership of the mother, period, if the mother doesn't want the child in her, for whatever reason it is her choice and within her power to evict the baby, just like its the authority of a parent to evict a born baby out of his/her care.

1 week baby isn't treated differently, it just no longer resides inside the body of the mother, so the question of forcing or taking control of the mother's body doesn't exist.

I disagree with you it is always just her body at all times, the child never takes control of the mother's body it just resides in her womb.

 

[Maschine_Man]

Canada bless


No legal restrictions and publicly funded abortions, health issue dealt with by doctors and their patients and not religious nut-head politicians

Even in Canada....

Late term abortions are rare. Only 0.4% take place after 20 weeks gestation. Late term abortions are performed when the fetus is gravely or fatally impaired or the woman’s life or physical health is at risk.

 

[David_TheMan]

Technically it's a parasite that cannot survive outside of the host until the 28th week or so. The Pro-Lifers, Bible Thumpers, and Hoteps can go to hell with guilting people into keeping unwanted and often unplanned children who will more than likely turn into burdens of the State and grandma/auntie's living room floor.

Well technically its a parasite until it reaches the age where it can provide food and shelter for itself and live on its own without the parent, that is a lot older than 28 weeks.

 

[Maschine_Man]

Late-term abortions are rare, make up 1% of abortions performed yearly, and are done in certain, extreme cases. Stop with the scaremongering @The_One



No, Late-Term Abortions Don't 'Rip' Babies Out Of Wombs -- And They Exist For A Reason

5 Facts About Late-Term Abortions That Show Why Trump's Description Was Inaccurate

How Many Late-Term Abortions Are Performed Each Year? They're As Rare As Fatal Snake Bites

What scare mongering?

I'm all for abortions....I am not against them. The fukk you talking about?

 

[Maschine_Man]

No study shows that women are unable to make their own decisions and become so mentally strained that they can't be trusted to make decisions for themself. No study shows what they are trying to argue for the sake of expanded government power.

Yes making decisions can be tough, in certain situations they are life and death decisions, that said a person should never have their agency over their body taken away from them because their wishes and values conflicts with the one who has the most guns on their side.

As for regret, everyone has to live with their decisions, making laws to save people from regret seems like a terrible decision and again gives the government unchecked authority over the private lives of citizens.

I'm not saying they can't make decisions, I'm saying they may not be making the best decisions based on possible depression or other psychological symptoms.

Did you know that 1 in 10 woman are diagnosted clinically depressed during pregnancy? And they are even more likely if it was an unplanned pregnancy. Depression and other psychological disorders can have a sever affect on ppl, add a pregnancy on top and it's compounded.

Go research depression if you don't u derstand it, then go look up depression during pregnancy.

Again....I'm not saying abortion is wrong. I'm saying there needs to be a cutoff....mostly for the baby, but also for the mental health of the mother.

 

[Maschine_Man]

Well technically its a parasite until it reaches the age where it can provide food and shelter for itself and live on its own without the parent, that is a lot older than 28 weeks.

Lol, a baby is not a parasite.

 

[David_TheMan]

I'm not saying they can't make decisions, I'm saying they may not be making the best decisions based on possible depression or other psychological symptoms.

Did you know that 1 in 10 woman are diagnosted clinically depressed during pregnancy? And they are even more likely if it was an unplanned pregnancy. Depression and other psychological disorders can have a sever affect on ppl, add a pregnancy on top and it's compounded.

Go research depression if you don't u derstand it, then go look up depression during pregnancy.

Again....I'm not saying abortion is wrong. I'm saying there needs to be a cutoff....mostly for the baby, but also for the mental health of the mother.

People have the right to make poor decisions and suffer the consequences.
Doesn't matter to me if 10 out of 10 women were diagnosed as clinically depressed, their body is still their body and depression doesn't suddenly change that fact.

An aside about depression doesn't change anything I've posted.

I'm not saying you claimed abortion is wrong, I just disagree entirely with the rationale you have in trying to limit it and usurp control of the mother's body. As for the mental health angle thats a separate issue and regret, pain of choice, are things everyone has to deal with, you can't legislate that away.

Lol, a baby is not a parasite.

pretty sure a newborn can't surivive without a parent or caretaker providing for it, they simply don't have the ability to protect and provide for themselves, they are entirely dependent beings.

 

[NkrumahWasRight Is Wrong]

Always an interesting debate to have, but to me, this is a women's issue.

 

[Maschine_Man]

People have the right to make poor decisions and suffer the consequences.
Doesn't matter to me if 10 out of 10 women were diagnosed as clinically depressed, their body is still their body and depression doesn't suddenly change that fact.

An aside about depression doesn't change anything I've posted.

I'm not saying you claimed abortion is wrong, I just disagree entirely with the rationale you have in trying to limit it and usurp control of the mother's body. As for the mental health angle thats a separate issue and regret, pain of choice, are things everyone has to deal with, you can't legislate that away.


pretty sure a newborn can't surivive without a parent or caretaker providing for it, they simply don't have the ability to protect and provide for themselves, they are entirely dependent beings.

Not being able to survive without a parent doesn't make it a parasite.
The baby-caregiver relationship is mutual whereas a parasite is not.

 

[Maschine_Man]

Always an interesting debate to have, but to me, this is a women's issue.

A lot of men feels this way....and a lot of men think raising a child is a woman's problem to.

Doesn't mean it's right.

Honestly, men should be more responsible right from the beginning.
And they should be involved right from the beginning.