Kobe Bryant Is An All Time Great, Unless You Do The Math: VICE
- Thread starter thernbroom
- Start date
LeBron had 3 HOFers when he did it
Like I said, nobody has done it except the GOAT Big Man.
Lakerman0834
Veteran
Pau wasn't hof bound or even a star prior to bean while both bosh and wade were stars winning playoff games for their teams
The best player in the league who hadn't won a 2nd-round playoff game since 2010 and who was in 9th place in the Western Conference at that moment.
Not to mention that he hadn't finished top-3 in MVP voting since 2010 either.
waltthizzney
All Star
The best player in the league who hadn't won a 2nd-round playoff game since 2010 and who was in 9th place in the Western Conference at that moment.
Not to mention that he hadn't finished top-3 in MVP voting since 2010 either.
who dragged a bunch of scrubs into the playoffs on a broken body
Pau wasn't hof bound or even a star prior to bean while both bosh and wade were stars winning playoff games for their teams
I love how you just tried to make something out of Bosh winning a total of 3 playoff games in his 8 years without Lebron.
Not to mention that was in the East. Aren't Pau's 3 playoff appearences in 6 years in the West supposed to trump Bosh's 2 playoff appearances in 8 years in the East?
Not that using "team's playoff wins" wasn't idiocy in the first place. Hell, Kobe had Derek Fisher and all his rings on his team, so doesn't that trump everything?
Ah, so a second ago he was the best player in the league, but now he had a broken body.
That sounds like revisionist history.
When was Kobe's body broken? Before the tendon injury? Really?
Which year did Pau, Howard, and MWP become scrubs? Pau and Howard both seemed able to play pretty damn good in the playoffs AFTER that year.
And when did the Lakers qualify for the playoffs? Didn't they move from 9th place to 8th place in the three straight games they won after the injury? I think I remember those "scrubs" putting up some damn fine performances once Kobe was gone....
waltthizzney
All Star
Ah, so a second ago he was the best player in the league, but now he had a broken body.
That sounds like revisionist history.
When was Kobe's body broken? Before the tendon injury? Really?
Which year did Pau, Howard, and MWP become scrubs? Pau and Howard both seemed able to play pretty damn good in the playoffs AFTER that year.
And when did the Lakers qualify for the playoffs? Didn't they move from 9th place to 8th place in the three straight games they won after the injury? I think I remember those "scrubs" putting up some damn fine performances once Kobe was gone....
yes complete scrubs..... what happened when kobe went down.. were you watching those games, kobe acted as player coach the 2nd half putting insane performance after insane performance.... those scrubs didnt even put up a fight
Bilz
Superstar
The refs bent over backwards to push that fukked up team into the playoffs but once they were there, they were all injured and had no business being on the same court with the Spurs anyway.
SuperPawgHunter
Banned
Let me tell you why Kobe Bryant doesn't work analytically: He was madness on the basketball court.
While many got accustomed to it over the years, Kobe Bryant is arguably the biggest conundrum in NBA History for two reasons:
1. He was arguably the most skilled scorer of all-time. But ....
2. He had arguably the worst shot selection of any player of all-time. Definitely of all the all-time greats.
We have never seen such a thing before. Normally, guys with bad shot selection, underachieve relative to their actually talent level. Well, Kobe thrived.
He was so good, that he was able to offset his gigantic achilles heel.
So much so, that it suggests, had he used the IQ he displays when talking about and breaking down the game, he would have been efficient and had even better stats.
What analytics cannot do account for is why a supremely skilled player, who is is a legendary chucker, and not really thinking about getting the best shot, is still highly regarded by his peers - with some even borderline idolizing him.
What analytics also can't explain is .....
I vivdly recall an early 2000s Lakers vs Spurs game that came on NBC, and Bill Walton was a commentator. Stephen Jackson guarded Kobe Bryant two plays in a row, and made him have to pass it off. Not too much later, he guarded Brian Show, and Brian Shaw blew past him for lay-ups twice. Brian Shaw was 36 at the time.
Bill Walton said, ''How do you play excellent defense on Kobe Bryant, but get beat off the dribble by a 36 year-old Brian Shaw?"
You can't prove this, so I don't really argue it, but I noticed it long ago.
For years, I didn't really watch anybody play but Kobe. I developed a very short attention span for watching basketball after I realized I wasn't going to make it to the NBA, so I only really watched Kobe. BUT, I started watching Lebron, and I was genuinely shocked by what I saw. What stood out to me was, how hard NBA defenders guarded Kobe. I'm not saying everybody, and I'm not saying every play, but the level of effort and intensity were visible. When I saw Lebron, it's not that no one played defense on him, but that same intensity to get up in him and try to shut him down was not there.
There was something about Kobe that made nikkas really want to stop him. Maybe because he's so skilled a scorer, and an arrogant prick, nikkas marked the Lakers games on the calendar. Whatever it was, I do believe Kobe had a tougher rode to travel offensively. It jumped out at you on the screen.
To this day, the defensive scheme used against Kobe in the 2008 NBA Finals may have been the most defensive focus thrown at a single in the history of the NBA Finals. A guy even made a detailed video about on it on YT. Them motherfukkers were HELL-BENT determined that Kobe Bryant was not going to beat them. Nobody guarded him as hard before, and nobody guarded as hard after, but they threw everything and the kitchen sink at dude.
What am I saying?
Kobe Bryant was not without flaw. However, coaches, players, GMS ... they are not regarding Kobe in the same manner that analytics are. Not even close. Kobe Bryant approach to basketball was unusual, so it doesn't surprise me one bit that he is anything but an analytics darling. The analytics account for what it can account for. If the ONLY thing that mattered was analytics, that'd be one thing, but OBVIOUSLY we know that is not the case, and that is why Kobe Bryant is considered one of the best ever despite analytics.
While many got accustomed to it over the years, Kobe Bryant is arguably the biggest conundrum in NBA History for two reasons:
1. He was arguably the most skilled scorer of all-time. But ....
2. He had arguably the worst shot selection of any player of all-time. Definitely of all the all-time greats.
We have never seen such a thing before. Normally, guys with bad shot selection, underachieve relative to their actually talent level. Well, Kobe thrived.
He was so good, that he was able to offset his gigantic achilles heel.
So much so, that it suggests, had he used the IQ he displays when talking about and breaking down the game, he would have been efficient and had even better stats.
What analytics cannot do account for is why a supremely skilled player, who is is a legendary chucker, and not really thinking about getting the best shot, is still highly regarded by his peers - with some even borderline idolizing him.
What analytics also can't explain is .....
I vivdly recall an early 2000s Lakers vs Spurs game that came on NBC, and Bill Walton was a commentator. Stephen Jackson guarded Kobe Bryant two plays in a row, and made him have to pass it off. Not too much later, he guarded Brian Show, and Brian Shaw blew past him for lay-ups twice. Brian Shaw was 36 at the time.
Bill Walton said, ''How do you play excellent defense on Kobe Bryant, but get beat off the dribble by a 36 year-old Brian Shaw?"
You can't prove this, so I don't really argue it, but I noticed it long ago.
For years, I didn't really watch anybody play but Kobe. I developed a very short attention span for watching basketball after I realized I wasn't going to make it to the NBA, so I only really watched Kobe. BUT, I started watching Lebron, and I was genuinely shocked by what I saw. What stood out to me was, how hard NBA defenders guarded Kobe. I'm not saying everybody, and I'm not saying every play, but the level of effort and intensity were visible. When I saw Lebron, it's not that no one played defense on him, but that same intensity to get up in him and try to shut him down was not there.
There was something about Kobe that made nikkas really want to stop him. Maybe because he's so skilled a scorer, and an arrogant prick, nikkas marked the Lakers games on the calendar. Whatever it was, I do believe Kobe had a tougher rode to travel offensively. It jumped out at you on the screen.
To this day, the defensive scheme used against Kobe in the 2008 NBA Finals may have been the most defensive focus thrown at a single in the history of the NBA Finals. A guy even made a detailed video about on it on YT. Them motherfukkers were HELL-BENT determined that Kobe Bryant was not going to beat them. Nobody guarded him as hard before, and nobody guarded as hard after, but they threw everything and the kitchen sink at dude.
What am I saying?
Kobe Bryant was not without flaw. However, coaches, players, GMS ... they are not regarding Kobe in the same manner that analytics are. Not even close. Kobe Bryant approach to basketball was unusual, so it doesn't surprise me one bit that he is anything but an analytics darling. The analytics account for what it can account for. If the ONLY thing that mattered was analytics, that'd be one thing, but OBVIOUSLY we know that is not the case, and that is why Kobe Bryant is considered one of the best ever despite analytics.
Supreme365
Superstar
Analytics show that kobe is an all time great
It’s just that they put him in the 15-20 range instead of 1-5
His stans take offense to that
All in all who gives a damn, he was a legend who is without one of the 20 greatest to ever play this game, I have him top 10
It’s just that they put him in the 15-20 range instead of 1-5
His stans take offense to that
All in all who gives a damn, he was a legend who is without one of the 20 greatest to ever play this game, I have him top 10