LeBron's start most efficient ever?

[Draje]

No......I'll tell you why you're being stupid.

First of all, your argument jumped all around the place. What the fukk does "advanced stats" and H2H matchups have to do with each other?

2ndly, who gives a fukk about REGULAR SEASON MATCHUPS We point out that Kobe has a better PLAYOFF record against Tim Duncan and that Kobe has sent him home numerous times. Nobody could tell you what their regular season matchups record is. LeBron has never met Kobe in the playoffs, so who gives a fukk about their "match ups"

Now, back to my original argument, Jordan didnt give a fukk about efficiency. He's said it out of his own mouth. He didnt stop and say "oh wait a minute.....I'm shooting 4-12 of the field, let me start getting Pip or Grant more involved"

He kept shooting.

LeBron would stop and become a distributer and it's okay for people to not like that style of basketball. I'd rather watch a team where the star player keeps playing to the wire than become a superstar DECOY like LeBron had the tendency to do.

You bring up AI has a prettier game than Durant? I love Durant's game. He plays to the final buzzer unlike LeBron. He doesnt become a decoy.

I'm more partial to watching and enjoying the Reggie Millers, Michael Jordans, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Birds, Charles Barkleys, Isiah Thomas, Kobe Bryants, Allen Iversons, Tracy McGradys, Stephon Marburys, Stephen Currys, Gilbert Arenas, prime Grant Hills, etc than watching LeBron James playing like Magic Johnson or Scottie Pippen

And yes, LeBron is more consistently dominant NOW........but Kobe from 2001-2010 is way more dominant than what we are seeing from LeBron today.

How the hell is LeBron putting up 26 points, 6 rebounds, 7 assists this season more dominant than Kobe putting up 35 points, 6 rebounds, and 5 assists per game in his prime? Because LeBron is shooting 61%?

They're in entirely different conferences so they only match up onThe finals. Lebron still craps on the Lakers head to head.

I meant AI over Duncan.

Jordan cared about efficiency and was plenty efficient. He had no problem taking the final shot bit it's very rare that youbjavecywo players, who s ore on a similar clip, and you want the less efficient one.

And yes, Lebron scoring 26 PPG on nearly 15% percentage is far impressive than 35 on 45%. Lebron literally takes ELEVEN LESS SHOTS A GAME and is scoring 9 points less. ELEVEN LESS SHOTS!

 

[Newzz]

I think the problem is that people are acting as if raw point totals and scoring is the only way to positively impact the game or to "entertain". Just because a guy isn't forcing his offense doesn't mean he's not trying. What you find entertaining is a matter of preference but I think there is some disengenousness going on with this whole "entertaining" piece. The Kobe that people are drooling over appeared in 05 not his whole career. When Kobe was on a championship caliber sqaud, trying to win rings, he wasn't out there trying to go for 40 every night. Same with Mike. Guess they weren't so entertaining those years huh? Same with all the guys you listed (that were fortunate enough to be on championship squads. BTW some of those names you just pulled out of your ass. G. Hill was far from a gunner. He was a terrific all around player that had just started to blossom as a scorer the season when he hurt his ankle. Lebron attempts more shots per game for his career than Hill ever attempted in a single season. Beyond all that are you really gonna try to act like we haven't seen Lebron go into takeover mode numerous times over the years? I mean if he's gotta do it every night, which most of those guys never did and the ones who did their team didn't win shyt that season, then that doesn't reflect very positively on his team or his chances to win championships. Funny how I heard so much about rings for years now nikkas wanna talk about what style of player is more entertaining and how they prefer a style that has not lent itself to any championships.

I am truly at how people are underplaying Lebron shooting at or even near 60%. We aren't talking about some pick and roll dunker who only avg. 5 shots a game and most of them are dunks. No we are talking about a perimeter player who, while big and athletic as fukk, takes his fair share of jumpshots, leads his team in attempts and is shooting 60% while in the top 3 in scoring. That's amazing no matter what type of play you prefer breh.

Kobe averaged over 40+ points per game in 3 separate months........2 of the 3 times was when Shaq was a member of The Lakers

Secondly, you say names and point out only Grant Hill?

2000 Grant Hill was Hill at his best AND LeBron on THE MIAMI HEAT doesnt shoot as much as Grant Hill did that season. Also, we've already established that LeBron James on the Cavs was a more entertaining player to watch than LeBron on the Heat, because he would put the team on his back and impose his will on the opposition. I dont like how he plays on the Heat

We still talk about rings, but this thread isnt about rings now is it?

You say the style doesnt lead itself to rings, but Jordan/Hakeem/Shaq/Kobe/Wade won all the rings from 1991-2010 (except the ones TD won and Celtics in 2008), and they were ALL score first/pass second players

 

[Newzz]

They're in entirely different conferences so they only match up onThe finals. Lebron still craps on the Lakers head to head.

I meant AI over Duncan.

Jordan cared about efficiency and was plenty efficient. He had no problem taking the final shot bit it's very rare that youbjavecywo players, who s ore on a similar clip, and you want the less efficient one.

And yes, Lebron scoring 26 PPG on nearly 15% percentage is far impressive than 35 on 45%. Lebron literally takes ELEVEN LESS SHOTS A GAME and is scoring 9 points less. ELEVEN LESS SHOTS!

Jordan was efficient, but he never slowed his game up because he found out he was shooting under 45% for the game like LeBron does, because he didnt care about that. It was all about doing whatever he had to do in order to win and if he had to keep attempting to score, that's what he did

Andre Iguodala is also averaging 15 ppg and shooting 61% from the field as well this season......and he's only 6'6. I should then safely assume that you consider Iguodala more impressive currently than anyone else in the NBA this season (except LeBron) or the past couple seasons right? I mean efficiency > everything else right

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

Jordan's efficiency was a byproduct of his dominance, not a byproduct of a conscience effort to only take certain shots to protect his field goal percentage.

George Karl tried calling out a 34 year old jordan, saying all he does is take jump shots because he's scared of injuring himself if he brings it in. Imagine that. Most players get dared to shoot jumpshots ( lebron in the finals last year ), whereas a coach was complaining that jordan didn't bring it in enough anymore. What did jordan do in response to this? Dropped 45 on karl's sonics next time they met, shooting 19/28 off mainly jumpers. Basically, saying "Yes, I shoot jumpers now. Stop me, nikka.". Original grade A ether right there. That's the difference between jordan's efficiency and bron's efficiency. Jordan really was efficient, inside and out. Bron was clanking wide open jumpers in the finals. Spurs daring him to shoot. Embarrassing.

 

[Newzz]

Jordan's efficiency was a byproduct of his dominance, not a byproduct of a conscience effort to only take certain shots to protect his field goal percentage.

These people are too dense to understand that

Jordan was efficient, but he didnt come into the game thinking "Man, I have to be shooting around 50% to keep my numbers up". Itv just happened that way, because he's the GOAT. His whole aura and motivation was to destroy your heart on the court and you dont do that by tossing 10 assists and grabbing 10 rebounds along with 25 points. That's nice (Magic Johnson & LeBron James), but KILLERS go out there to take your soul away (Michael Jordan & Kobe Bryant). 45 points, 5 rebounds, and 5 assists later....the defender is just ready to hit the shower and not talk about that game again.

Jordan could've probably shot around 60% for his career if he had LeBron's mindset on "efficiency > everything else"

 

[FTBS]

Kobe averaged over 40+ points per game in 3 separate months........2 of the 3 times was when Shaq was a member of The Lakers

Secondly, you say names and point out only Grant Hill?

2000 Grant Hill was Hill at his best AND LeBron on THE MIAMI HEAT doesnt shoot as much as Grant Hill did that season. Also, we've already established that LeBron James on the Cavs was a more entertaining player to watch than LeBron on the Heat, because he would put the team on his back and impose his will on the opposition. I dont like how he plays on the Heat

We still talk about rings, but this thread isnt about rings now is it?

You say the style doesnt lead itself to rings, but Jordan/Hakeem/Shaq/Kobe/Wade won all the rings from 1991-2010 (except the ones TD won and Celtics in 2008), and they were ALL score first/pass second players

Oh so a month=the entire season now? If he averaged 40 for a month 3 times and never averaged 40 for a season what does that say? That his attempts and/or his productivity dipped in the other 5 months. The only SEASON he averaged almost 40 and shot all the time was 05 when there was no Shaq and no chance of winning a title. Who would want to repeat that? Even Kobe got tired of that shyt.

Grant's name jumped out as the most ridiculous example of a gunner that I have ever heard that is why I singled him out. Zeke was an all-time great POINT GUARD who also never took as many shots per game for a season that Bron has for his career. He always had capable scorers around him and was a 10+ assist guy most of his career. Larry Bird was clutch killer but he was also a great team player. Steph is another guy who has never matched Lebron's career attempts per game for an individual season. Same with Reggie. Same with Chuck. That enough names?

This thread isn't about Kobe either but I see his name all through it. Point is Lebron, like Kobe and Mike and many others before him is more focused on winning rings right now on a championship team than he is on putting up the guadiest PPG. For the 1000th time Kobe and Mike were not gunning as much when they were winning titles. Was Kobe less exciting when he was scoring 25 and winning rings? Kobe avg 23, 29, 25, 27, 27 during his championship seasons. That's 26.2 per game for Kobe during championship seasons. Lebron is avg. 26 this year. Aside from the fact that one guy is doing on 60% shooting what's so different?

 

[FTBS]

Jordan's efficiency was a byproduct of his dominance, not a byproduct of a conscience effort to only take certain shots to protect his field goal percentage.

George Karl tried calling out a 34 year old jordan, saying all he does is take jump shots because he's scared of injuring himself if he brings it in. Imagine that. Most players get dared to shoot jumpshots ( lebron in the finals last year ), whereas a coach was complaining that jordan didn't bring it in enough anymore. What did jordan do in response to this? Dropped 45 on karl's sonics next time they met, shooting 19/28 off mainly jumpers. Basically, saying "Yes, I shoot jumpers now. Stop me, nikka.". Original grade A ether right there. That's the difference between jordan's efficiency and bron's efficiency. Jordan really was efficient, inside and out. Bron was clanking wide open jumpers in the finals. Spurs daring him to shoot. Embarrassing.

Mike also wasn't out there acting like you get extra points for degree of difficulty. What it wrong with taking the best shot possible consistently? Am I missing something here? The point of offense is the put the ball into the hole. The more efficiently you do that the better it is for your team, especially if you team sucks at rebounding. It doesn't really matter how or why you get there, the point is to get there.

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

Mike also wasn't out there acting like you get extra points for degree of difficulty. What it wrong with taking the best shot possible consistently? Am I missing something here? The point of offense is the put the ball into the hole. The more efficiently you do that the better it is for your team, especially if you team sucks at rebounding. It doesn't really matter how or why you get there, the point is to get there.

Yes. You're missing my entire post apparently. Nowhere did I say mike was out there acting like you got extra points for degree of difficulty.

 

[Malik]

No......I'll tell you why you're being stupid.

First of all, your argument jumped all around the place. What the fukk does "advanced stats" and H2H matchups have to do with each other?

2ndly, who gives a fukk about REGULAR SEASON MATCHUPS We point out that Kobe has a better PLAYOFF record against Tim Duncan and that Kobe has sent him home numerous times. Nobody could tell you what their regular season matchups record is. LeBron has never met Kobe in the playoffs, so who gives a fukk about their "match ups"

Now, back to my original argument, Jordan didnt give a fukk about efficiency. He's said it out of his own mouth. He didnt stop and say "oh wait a minute.....I'm shooting 4-12 of the field, let me start getting Pip or Grant more involved"

He kept shooting.

LeBron would stop and become a distributer and it's okay for people to not like that style of basketball. I'd rather watch a team where the star player keeps playing to the wire than become a superstar DECOY like LeBron had the tendency to do.

You bring up AI has a prettier game than Durant? I love Durant's game. He plays to the final buzzer unlike LeBron. He doesnt become a decoy.

I'm more partial to watching and enjoying the Reggie Millers, Michael Jordans, Dominique Wilkins, Larry Birds, Charles Barkleys, Isiah Thomas, Kobe Bryants, Allen Iversons, Tracy McGradys, Stephon Marburys, Stephen Currys, Gilbert Arenas, prime Grant Hills, etc than watching LeBron James playing like Magic Johnson or Scottie Pippen

And yes, LeBron is more consistently dominant NOW........but Kobe from 2001-2010 is way more dominant than what we are seeing from LeBron today.

How the hell is LeBron putting up 26 points, 6 rebounds, 7 assists this season more dominant than Kobe putting up 35 points, 6 rebounds, and 5 assists per game in his prime? Because LeBron is shooting 61%?

Tim Duncan has a better win-loss record vs. Kobe Bryant in the regular season

27 wins to 20 wins.

Despite Kobe sending him home multiple times.

Go figure

 

[Newzz]

Oh so a month=the entire season now? If he averaged 40 for a month 3 times and never averaged 40 for a season what does that say? That his attempts and/or his productivity dipped in the other 5 months. The only SEASON he averaged almost 40 and shot all the time was 05 when there was no Shaq and no chance of winning a title. Who would want to repeat that? Even Kobe got tired of that shyt.

Grant's name jumped out as the most ridiculous example of a gunner that I have ever heard that is why I singled him out. Zeke was an all-time great POINT GUARD who also never took as many shots per game for a season that Bron has for his career. He always had capable scorers around him and was a 10+ assist guy most of his career. Larry Bird was clutch killer but he was also a great team player. Steph is another guy who has never matched Lebron's career attempts per game for an individual season. Same with Reggie. Same with Chuck. That enough names?

This thread isn't about Kobe either but I see his name all through it. Point is Lebron, like Kobe and Mike and many others before him is more focused on winning rings right now on a championship team than he is on putting up the guadiest PPG. For the 1000th time Kobe and Mike were not gunning as much when they were winning titles. Was Kobe less exciting when he was scoring 25 and winning rings? Kobe avg 23, 29, 25, 27, 27 during his championship seasons. That's 26.2 per game for Kobe during championship seasons. Lebron is avg. 26 this year. Aside from the fact that one guy is doing on 60% shooting what's so different?

I'm not comparing people's "attempts per game" to LeBron's. It's well documented that LeBron will keep shooting if he's around 50% for the game.

What I'm comparing is the fact that a Reggie Miller would go down shooting while LeBron, if he's not around 50% would become a Franchise Decoy Player and start passing the ball to others and let his team go down that way.

Pretty much, alot of us prefer Superstar players to go down swinging......that's not LeBron and we dont have to be impressed by that just because you are

Also, you bring Isiah Thomas but he never STOPPED trying to score because his FG% was low, Bird didnt, Stephen Curry doesnt do it, Barkley didnt do it, etc. Efficiency became a big thing over the years because that's something the stat boys can hold on too as why LeBron's their favorite player.

Yes, LeBron has "pretty" STATS and is John Hollinger's wet dream. However, basketball isnt played on "stats" and star players of years past didnt care about shooting %'s. Without looking, what's Magic Johnson career FG% again? You dont know because that's NEVER been a topic of discussion

I find it funny that everyone is all about efficiency now, but when Steve Nash was shooting 50%+ FG and 40% + 3pt....there were no talks about him being the best PG "because of his efficency". No, it was "he's not better than Chris Paul/Deron Williams/Jason Kidd"

Nobody ever brings up the fact that Iggy at 6'6 SF is shooting 61% from the field as well and putting up 15 a night. Nobody talks about Wade's high FG% and efficency. Steph Curry? Mo Cheeks has the highest FG% in NBA History for a PG at 52.3% FG for his career........not one POST has ever been made on this board talking about Mo Cheeks

But, LeBron? He's the only player in the NBA who's shooting efficiency matters though right

 

[Newzz]

Tim Duncan has a better win-loss record vs. Kobe Bryant in the regular season

27 wins to 20 wins.

Despite Kobe sending him home multiple times.

Go figure

And that's why Da Eggman bringing that regular season shyt up between LeBorn vs Kobe means nothing. Playoff matchups is what counts and you can win 100-0 in the regular season when the games dont matter, but if I keep sending you home...when it counts....then obviously there's a problem.

Kobe and LeBron have never met in the playoffs, so H2H matchups in the regular season mean nothing. They should of met up in 2009, but LeBron and the Cavs were upset by the under dog Magic in the playoffs (which people forget about, conveniently, as well)

 

[YoungMoneyCashMoneyBoy]

This is why the nikka bron is corny:

“It’s like a competition me and D-Wade are having right now about who can shoot 50 percent, in each and every game,” James said, when asked a couple of days later. “I had no idea, because I don’t know what’s going on throughout the game as far as stats. I came in after the game, I saw 9-for-19 [against the Bobcats in late December] and I missed that last long three, I felt I could have gotten into the lane and got a layup. I’ve got to make up for it.” [...]

Then you got wade saying:

“We’re both so conscious of wanting to shoot 50 percent, that sometimes you wish you had that Kobe (Bryant) thought, where you just don’t care,” Wade said. “We talk about it all the time. It sucks at times, but it’s who we are.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-b...pete-efficiency-stats-sly-145018924--nba.html

Just play the damn game.

 

[Malik]

And that's why Da Eggman bringing that regular season shyt up between LeBorn vs Kobe means nothing. Playoff matchups is what counts and you can win 100-0 in the regular season when the games dont matter, but if I keep sending you home...when it counts....then obviously there's a problem.

Kobe and LeBron have never met in the playoffs, so H2H matchups in the regular season mean nothing. They should of met up in 2009, but LeBron and the Cavs were upset by the under dog Magic in the playoffs (which people forget about, conveniently, as well)

The Cavs got sent home by the Celtics in 2008 and 2010 too.


The Cavs lost to the two teams that Kobe beat in the Finals. And the Lakers lost to the two teams that LeBron beat in the Finals. When Kobe was winning, LeBron wasn't ready. And now that LeBron is winning, Kobe is past his prime.


The basketball gods 'd everybody

Had these two met in the Finals, it would have settled alot of these arguments.

 

[Newzz]

The Cavs got sent home by the Celtics in 2008 and 2010 too.


The Cavs lost to the two teams that Kobe beat in the Finals. And the Lakers lost to the two teams that LeBron beat in the Finals. When Kobe was winning, LeBron wasn't ready. And now that LeBron is winning, Kobe is past his prime.


The basketball gods 'd everybody

Had these two met in the Finals, it would have settled alot of these arguments.

It's not even an argument as far as LeBron "as a player" vs Kobe "as a player" that im trying to make.

It's more of the thread talking about efficiency, and I'm like when the fukk did that start putting players over the next? If that's the case, Wade should've been widely considered better than Kobe years ago, but that was never the consensus.

There shouldnt have been arguments that LeBron was better than Carmelo when Carmelo had better shooting efficiency in 4 of their first 5 seasons, but yet these same people in this thread arguing FOR efficiency today, were the same one's saying LeBron > Carmelo back then.

Why isnt John Stockton considered the hand's down GOAT PG, when he has 12 seasons where he shot 50+% from the field averaging 17 ppg, 14 apg, and 3 spg?

It's just like

 

[kidsinamerica_]

I don't see how that's a negative, they are a terrible rebounding team, they cannot afford to take bad shots. If they had a frontcourt that could pull down offensive boards and clean up their garbage it's one thing, but they are a historically bad rebounding team that beats people by being efficient as hell on offense.

I wouldn’t say it’s negative either. But it shows the “Efficiency” statistic can be manipulated fairly easily. The stat is not an objective measure because it can be manipulated. You have Wade and LeBron who are conscious of wanting to shoot 50 percent. Meaning Wade and LeBron manipulate their numbers.