Lets get it Started right now-Which NBA Era is Better?

[I.V.]

This garbage ass thread getting shytted on

 

[mbewane]

Depends what you mean by "better".

If "better" is more points, 3 pts and lay-ups, then stoday's era is better.

Me personnaly, I'm a fan of moves. Obviously post-up moves, but also actually crossing over, reverse lay-ups, going around the defense (as opposed to jumping into the defense to get foul shots). Most moves were intiated by the intent to avoid the defender, now the Hardens and Wades know that it's not necessary since jumping into a defender/falling will get you two foul shots. I'm also a fan of defense, and that's basically an afterthought today.

I think the easiest way to think about this is : would the First NBA team from then beat the the First NBA team from now?

Tim Hardaway
Grant Hill
Michael Jordan*
Karl Malone*
Hakeem Olajuwon*

vs

Stephen Curry
Anthony Davis
Marc Gasol
James Harden
LeBron James

I guess we can all agree that interior goes to the 90s, Marc Gasol and AD couldn't hang for long with Olajuwon and Malone. They wouldn't get washed but still, Olajuwon was sonning Robinson and Malone was sonning everyone back then.
No need to talk about MJ vs Harden lol
Bron vs Hill : Bron takes this, but Hill contributes well.
Hardaway vs Steph : Steph has this thanks to his three-point excellence, but we all know Tim got hot quick and was virtually unstoppable then.

All of the 90s guys are tougher and better defenders too. It would take a Bron monster game because all the other guys can and will get locked up if the game is played 90s style. Bron (and Gasol somewhat) can fare better than the others under those circumstances. Problem is that on the other side you have MJ AND the others who would have no real issues with these guys imo.

 

[Whitty Hutton]

Maybe it's where i was in life at the time, but i knew rosters from top to bottom, waited for and taped highlights, and would forgo certain activities to watch games in the 90's. Today for 95% of the games i'd only watch them if there was nothing else to do or watch. Probably 50% for 1st & 2nd round of playoffs


Better talent is an argument that would never be settled unless you could put 90's nikkas into a game against 2015 nikkas

 

[rapbeats]

Also I realize MJ may not be the best Iso example because the bulls did play the triangle a lot, but look at this way, the triangle was incredibly innovative in a lot of ways in the 90s NBA (even though I realize it's been around since the 50s at least)
But after poppovich took a bunch of action of the triangle and made slight changes to alter it for the modern game, most of the NBA followed with their own versions and at this point it's basically an archaic system. Shows you how much Xs and Os have progressed

hey i dont disagree with a word you just said about schemes and coaching. to me that is the biggest change i've seen. change meaning things have changed for the better. there are much better SCHEMES now offensively and defensively(with the help of the zone rules of course). i already admitted in numerous threads part of the reason for guys scoring more (little guys on the perimeter) is due to the newer schemes, where every single team is running heavy screens on the ball. the only teams doing this back in the 80's, 90's. were the utah jazz, old school 80's lakers a bit, and GP/Kemp sonics. other teams were not running heavy screens all the time. so that meant an offensive player had to dismantle his defender with his own moves. no help from the refs(or rules). no help from a screener. just you and me. But that was a game within a game at times. now that no longer exists. its 100% coaching schemes and rules. well of course i'm exaggerating. obviously the players have a lot to do with it too.

but you get my point. i dont like the old east coast ISO all the time ball. but the proper mix when you watched even the old school lakers from the 80's/celtics from the 80's, even utah with their pick n everything would set up those isos in certain scenarios. its a beautiful thing. and because the rules made it so you had to MAN the Eff UP on defense. you couldnt run and hide behind a zone defense. i still remember so many superstar euro guys that were supposed to come to the nba and ball out. but they got here and went back home. because they found out quick"these boys are way to athletic, too many moves and i cant guard them without that fiba zone." it was a "man's league" back then. the zone took some of that away. which took some of the fun out of it. but that zone also made it harder for back 2 the basket bigs who may not have been as skilled/dominant as a shaq/hakeem. i mean there are guys that are pretty good in the post but not great. those guys cant get any run vs that zone. so the kids grow up not looking at any bigmen in the low post. every ball player thats not the nba copies what the nba does. if big men are IN now. then you will create more bigs in college wanting to be back 2 the basket bigs. since thats not an IN thing to be. everyone wants to handle the ball like a guard even if they're 7 feet tall. thats cute if you're KD or LBJ or even anthony davis. but what if you're not one of those guys. then its not cute anymore. now you're chucking jumpers dribbling too darn much and you dont even have the skillset for that either. and you dont post up. so you're just about worthless.

 

[rapbeats]

It's a battle you can't win with 90's stans. They use hyperbole, nostalgia, rhetoric, and love of the mid range jumper as their argument. I loved the decade too. I grew up in it, but some things need to stay in the past. People don't carry boom boxes or vhs tapes anymore. We don't look for a pay phone to call the house anymore, we don't write letters to each other. Times change. Basketball is no different.

WAY TO make a post not speaking on actual basketball. just talking about those who make these type of threads. again if you cant reply with something of substance why reply at all?

 

[rapbeats]

I really don't understand the conversation taking place here. Doesn't matter who is or isn't old if they're still highly productive players in the game today and your statement was this game has no back to basket talent. If those guys are good in the post then they count. And an era spans more than a single season so your terminology is off here. Dirk is not done in the post he's still exceptional in that area, I have no idea why you're so biased against older players here. If you don't think Blake or LMA have b2b talent I don't know what to tell you, watch them more often? You don't see them backing fools down on the block & in blake's case bullying his way to the paint using his forearm to create separation compensating for a lack of wingspan and throwing up an effective hook over the top? Its not pretty but it sure as hell is effective. And he does a great job sealing his man into the paint so he can catch the ball in prime position to score. What about LMA hitting his defender with an up & under, an accurate turnaround fade which is his signature move or a running hook shot. What about the Rockets Lithuanian PF that took a huge leap this year Donatas Motiejunas, that man is extremely skilled on the block

you do understand what i'm saying when i made the thread about eras. You do not include guys at the end of their careers in said era even though they are still technically playing in the era. thats not their era. stop trying to take guys from other eras and apply it to the new era. stick to the issue we're discussing.

you can show all the videos of a guy making a solid post move all you want. we know guys are not skilled with their backs to the basket on any consistent level in todays nba. NOT YET. we know this how?

if you ever want to know the difference between Brook lopez or any guy from today with his back to the basket vs his main defender and if he has that serious post game is how often is the man double teamed in the low post. if the answer is "not often" then he isnt that skilled. its really that simple. dwight can make those moves too..on occasion. but can he put it together vs great defenders in the paint? NO not really. can he put it together consistently? Nope. not really.

this means all of these guys end up being garbage men and lob catchers. where you have a few guys with extreme face up ability like blake that can dribble his way into the paint and make a move like that with a jumper for spacing.

and hey for all we know towns and okafor my be ushering in a new era of post game. but until then, i still stick with my original comment. it isnt here in this era.

and i'll add this again. it wasnt just bigs back in the 90's either. every position had guys that could post up for real. a few PG's were putting guys on their backs. so little midgets would get abused when they met up with these type of PG's.

even in a video someone posted in that penny hardaway thread vs the bulls. showed pip posting up making advanced moves, penny posting up making advanced moves, kukoc posting up making advanced moves, with the bigs too. thats how rought it was back then. you come in with that small ball nonsense. and you will get put on someone's back all night long until you brought that double team. old school mark jackson use to put dudes on his back too. i still remember the nuggets staying in the game vs the lakers not long ago because of andre miller posting up our guards. thats what a real/legit post game can do for a team

 

[rapbeats]

Breh, you are fukking killing me here.

First with the Penny vs LeBron shyt and now THIS?

yeah..now this. i said it.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Hold on, you said low post big men don't exist at all in this era but now you've acknowledged Boogie. Pretty sure footwork, counters and touch age well in basketball so Al Jefferson is still an outstanding post player, old man still gets it done. Dirk is not done he's clearly still effective with his back to the basket as one of the most skilled post players to ever play this game. Zbo is still very good down low doesn't matter if he's old wasn't aware there was an age restriction to being able to play through the post. Griffin and Aldridge are good back to basket players not entirely sure why you think they aren't. Brook Lopez is not ok at best he's incredibly skilled. Not saying these guys are better than Pat/Shaq/Hakeem, they aren't, but that saying this era has no good b2b big men is pretty insane.

And thats why I hate era debates. Because there never fails to be one side that exaggerates out of their ass to make the era they want to shine look better with some outrageous statement that grossly misrepresents an era

You talking about Blake? He has a struggle post game.I wouldn't call it good.

Aldridge has a good back to the basket game....but he settles for the turn around J 90% of the time.He's not really beasting in the paint like that.His post game consist of backing you down from 20 ft out & creating enough leverage to get off a rhythmic 12-13ft turnaround J

 

[Consumed]

You talking about Blake? He has a struggle post game.I wouldn't call it good.

Aldridge has a good back to the basket game....but he settles for the turn around J 90% of the time.He's not really beasting in the paint like that.His post game consist of backing you down from 20 ft out & creating enough leverage to get off a rhythmic 12-13ft turnaround J

Blake doesn't struggle in the post by any stretch of the imagination. The way that he scores may be highly unconventional but hes mastered the art of making his defender lose leverage whether through shoulder fakes, powerful back downs, spins or even burrowing his head into the chest of his man in order to get a hook or floater over the top. Hes been one of the leagues most efficient post post players in each of the past two seasons. In that stretch where Paul was out last year and he averaged like 30 over the course of a month I thought that was the moment when the talk of him having no post skill would die. He is a problem on the block

Aldridge does settle a lot for that turnaround fade from the left block but his up & under move is arguably the best in the league. He catches people with it almost every single time. Also has a good hook shot and plenty of counters. Hes not dominant no but pretty good. Can build a elite offense through him in the post

Oh and Love is a good post player too. AD is the one who really needs to work on polishing his post reportoire but Im confident that'll come with time

 

[Liquid]

yeah..now this. i said it.

You are a basketball fan, but you don't really know the game with some of this absurd shyt you have been saying lately

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

its not that simple bruh.

i know..analytics. blah blah blah.

a giant in the paint with footwork racking up fouls on the opponent has never been analysed ,, if so please point me to it.

That alone does more damage then chucking 50 3's praying you make 20 eventually.

But you wouldnt know anything about that because you believe what you're told by the new era statisticians. which i dont have an issue with. its just that this idea of "men lie, women lie, but numbers dont" is only half true. Numbers can lie because people control the numbers. I can make the very same stat say something completely different than what you just said.

but again most of yall dont understand that concept so you take these "professionals" comments as if its the gospel truth.

is their truth in shooting long twos is dumb when you can take a half a step back and chuck the 3. of course. that makes logical sense. is it true a team without size can stay in a game by chucking more shots at the basket, speeding the game up and making some 3's. YUP. true statement.

But the only reason it looks like it works so well in today's nba, is because of the rule changes and the lack of skilled younger current era low post guys. again, they dont tell you that. because the wave is now perimeter based and 3's chucking. we are not trying to bring back those giants. giants that have serious post moves along with a top tier guard(pg or sg) = domination. The only time someone dominated that didnt have a big. was jordan, pip, and ho grant. but guess what. Jordan had post game like a big man too. pip had post game, and so did ho grant.

when i get you with my back to the basket and you have no idea how to stop me. you will call for help. the moment you do that you compromise your defense. if i can pass out of a double team well. its going to be a long night for any team.

The reason why the grizz cant win it all is because their bigs with good post game dont LIVE in the post all day and night. because they are not that good down low. gasol is a great passing big. but he's great at passing when he faces up(when he can see the entire floor from the high post.) same with blake griffin(great passing big. but only when facing up). do you understand how far a defender has to travel to sink down to help on the post player. and if that ball is swung back out. he has to go chase it. and if its swung around or even a ball fake. if nothing else. it makes the defender fatigued if this keeps happening all game long, let alone all series long in a playoff situation. see these things have not yet been measures statistically. notice i'm not juts making up some talking points about bigs are better than smalls blah blah. i'm giving you specifics to why a certain skilled big can cause havoc on a defense.

the nba truthfully does not want that kind of domination from any one guy or any one team. they dont. as great as LBJ is/was. he still didnt win 3 times in a row with a stacked team in a weaker era where he had a chance to play children in one(kd and russ) and another to play old men(spurs).

the nba likes it how it is now. the heat win one or two. spurs wins 1 here, 1 there. hopefully gstate or the cavs win. doenst matter if its bron again. its a different team. they want it to be spread around like that. it brings more fans out like the NFL. but basketball played in its purest form would most likely produce some juggernaut team(s) with a great skilled big in the post and a highly skilled guard up top. that combo cant lose until it ages out.

the reason the spurs have never won back to back titles is because as good as Tparker and gino are. They are not as good as prime kobe, prime lebro, prime wade, prime tmac, etc. or prime magic.

the combination of a legendary guard and a legendary post playing big = 3 peat. in any era. the nba really doesnt want that.

i mean think about it. prime pau gasol aint no prime shaq and he got a back 2 back out of the deal. hakeem didnt have any jordan, kobe like level guard play. and he got a back 2 back too.

that post play is devastating.

I remember when I started a bunch of shyt a few years back when I created a thread "1995 Orlando Magic vs the 2011 Miami Heat" or some shyt like that....

Most of The Coli picked the Heat, but I was up in the air about it....Would've been interesting to see the Heat goin up against a young monster in the post like Shaq....Ho Grant....Penny running the point..

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Blake doesn't struggle in the post by any stretch of the imagination. The way that he scores may be highly unconventional but hes mastered the art of making his defender lose leverage whether through shoulder fakes, powerful back downs, spins or even burrowing his head into the chest of his man in order to get a hook or floater over the top. Hes been one of the leagues most efficient post post players in each of the past two seasons. In that stretch where Paul was out last year and he averaged like 30 over the course of a month I thought that was the moment when the talk of him having no post skill would die. He is a problem on the block

Aldridge does settle a lot for that turnaround fade from the left block but his up & under move is arguably the best in the league. He catches people with it almost every single time. Also has a good hook shot and plenty of counters. Hes not dominant no but pretty good. Can build a elite offense through him in the post

Oh and Love is a good post player too. AD is the one who really needs to work on polishing his post reportoire but Im confident that'll come with time

Blake has the same exact game as Amare Stoudemire.They're relentless, tenacious at getting to the rim, by any means necessary.....but they're not skilled post players.

They're both(Amare before the injuries) bulldogs with crazy athleticism/above average ballhandling for their size.When I watch them in the post, yeah, they're able to outmuscle defenders from time to time, but it's not textbook, or pretty....that's why I call it struggle post.It looks like they're having a stroke down there

 

[Consumed]

Blake has the same exact game as Amare Stoudemire.They're relentless, tenacious at getting to the rim, by any means necessary.....but they're not skilled post players.

They're both(Amare before the injuries) bulldogs with crazy athleticism/above average ballhandling for their size.When I watch them in the post, yeah, they're able to outmuscle defenders from time to time, but it's not textbook, or pretty....that's why I call it struggle post.It looks like they're having a stroke down there

True it's very ugly, I guess in that sense he isn't an appealing post player. But for me since it works I'm not mad at him. It think he's pretty skilled. Has counters, uses fakes, compensates for a lack of height & wingspan (which is why it looks so unconventional) with subtle nudges to get his defender off base. Has been sucessful playing this way for two years even in the postseason where it's common for non skilled players to get exposed

 

[ghostwriterx]

the rules made it so you had to MAN the Eff UP on defense. you couldnt run and hide behind a zone defense. i still remember so many superstar euro guys that were supposed to come to the nba and ball out. but they got here and went back home. because they found out quick"these boys are way to athletic, too many moves and i cant guard them without that fiba zone."

Who are these "superstar" euros who couldn't cut it?

Defenses sucked in the 80s.

These guys were too athletic for them?

 

[bdkane]

I think the 90's first team would win in 6. They had too many guys with a better basketball I.Q. Today LeBron and Paul are the only guys I think could compete with those teams in this regard. The Grant of then was not that far behind Bron, the new bigs would get that work bad. Hakeem, Pat, and a young Shaq protecting the rim. Not even mentioning Zo and David Robinson. Bron would make it close but if the physicality was allowed then 4 game sweep. It would be like these new black nikkas going to a public school in the hood. Culture shock. By the time they adjust the series is over.