Let's Talk About Gun Control

[Type Username Here]

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We are number one there

Okay, now look at the two links you posted.

Nothing jumps out at you?

Put your emotions aside and think critically and rationally.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Okay, now look at the two links you posted.

Nothing jumps out at you?

Put your emotions aside and think critically and rationally.

Do you have better sources?

 

[Type Username Here]

Do you have better sources?

Yes, there are better and more recent sources. I'll get them up.

But I wasn't referring to the links you posted being wrong.

Is there anything that jumps out at you when you look at those two lists side by side.

 

[ecnirp1]

i said this in the other thread, but i think it should be a requirement that all law abiding citizens carry a firearm and are trained to use it. that's the only way to equalize the bad guys having guns.

there is no way to eradicate all of the guns that are already in circulation and stricter gun control laws do not work in preventing gun violence. it's already been proven.

 

[mbewane]

Can't believe this discussion is STILL going on after all these massacres. I mean do you guys even acknowledge that someting is wrong?

Let's entertain the NRA pro-gun types: IF the guns are not the problem, than the people with the guns are the problem. Right?

So what do you do with those people? Just pray they don't go shooting up random schools? You've got to do something...or not?

 

[Type Username Here]

i said this in the other thread, but i think it should be a requirement that all law abiding citizens carry a firearm and are trained to use it. that's the only way to equalize the bad guys having guns.

there is no way to eradicate all of the guns that are already in circulation and stricter gun control laws do not work in preventing gun violence. it's already been proven.

Yea, I've been in here defending the Right to own a weapon, that I haven't laid out some of my proposals:

1) A person should get a psyche eval and go through a training procedure to get a permit. All these things should be done through independent sources, outside of the Federal Government's reach. Make it a state process.

2) The gun laws for illegal activity are WAY too lenient. Here's a good example of what I am talking about, from today:
Hialeah cop and wife charged with illegal gun sales - Hialeah - MiamiHerald.com

This couple faces from 5-10 years for selling 600 illegal weapons. That is fukking absurd. I would increase that to life and if the government can prove that any of those illegal weapons were used in a murder, I would charge the people selling it with manslaughter or accomplice to murder.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Yes, there are better and more recent sources. I'll get them up.

But I wasn't referring to the links you posted being wrong.

Is there anything that jumps out at you when you look at those two lists side by side.

Yeah we are the only country in the top 10-20 on both lists. This further proves my point. Gun laws in America are a joke. They don't work and they should be addressed. In all those other countries that are high on the guns per capita list have very strict laws and regulations on guns and bullets, we don't.

 

[Type Username Here]

Yeah we are the only country in the top 10-20 on both lists. This further proves my point. Gun laws in America are a joke. They don't work and they should be addressed. In all those other countries that are high on the guns per capita list have very strict laws and regulations on guns and bullets, we don't.

We have 7 times more guns than South Africa, yet 20 times less homicides.

Here is the law there summed up:

In South Africa, owning a gun is conditional on a competency test and several other factors, including background checking of the applicant, inspection of an owner's premises, and licensing of the weapon by the police introduced in July 2004. The process is currently undergoing review,[1] as the police are at present, not able to adequately or within reasonable time, process either competency certification, new licenses or renewal of existing licenses. Minimum waiting period frequently exceeds 2 years from date of application.

Much stricter than America.


Now, let's look at the other side:

We have double the circulation of Switzerland, yet Switzerland is not even found on this source you posted.

Here are the gun laws for the Swiss summed up:

To purchase a firearm in a commercial shop, one needs to have a Waffenerwerbsschein (weapon acquisition permit). A permit allows the purchase of three firearms. Everyone over the age of 18 who is not psychiatrically disabled (such as having had a history of endangering his own life or the lives of others) or identified as posing security problems, and who has a clean criminal record (requires a Criminal Records Bureau check) can request such a permit.

To buy a gun from an individual, no permit is needed, but the seller is expected to establish a reasonable certainty that the purchaser will fulfill the above-mentioned conditions (usually done through a Criminal Records Bureau check).

NO different than the United States.



So, do the laws work?

 

[MeachTheMonster]

We have 7 times more guns than South Africa, yet 20 times less homicides.

Here is the law there summed up:


Much stricter than America.


Now, let's look at the other side:

We have double the circulation of Switzerland, yet Switzerland is not even found on this source you posted.

Here are the gun laws for the Swiss summed up:



NO different than the United States.



So, do the laws work?

South Africa is a country that's been constantly filled with internal conflict, and bad goverment for the last 50 years. That's not a good comparison.

As for Switzerland, your "facts" are misleading at best.

Washington Post

Both countries require you to have a reason to have a gun. There isn't this idea that you have a right to a gun. You need a reason. And then you need to go back to the permitting authority every six months or so to assure them the reason is still valid.

Everyone in Switzerland serves in the army, and the cantons used to let you have the guns at home. They've been moving to keeping the guns in depots. That means they're not in the household, which makes sense because the literature shows us that if the gun is in the household, the risk goes up for everyone in the household.

Not the same as America. Switzerland is a small country that doesn't have the same social or economic problems as America. Again not a good comparison.

 

[Type Username Here]

South Africa is a country that's been constantly filled with internal conflict, and bad goverment for the last 50 years. That's not a good comparison.

As for Switzerland, your "facts" are misleading at best.

Washington Post





Not the same as America. Switzerland is a small country that doesn't have the same social or economic problems as America. Again not a good comparison.

So, according to the bold, the problems are NOT the guns?

 

[Type Username Here]

You can make it illegal to possess weapons. You can make it harder for law abiding citizens to get weapons.

Until you address the other issue, things won't change.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

So, according to the bold, the problems are NOT the guns?

According to the bolded, America faces different challenges than Switzerland, so our laws should reflect that. And even though we have more of a reason to restrict guns, our laws and regulations are much more relaxed. Best belive if people started getting shot up in Switzerland they would change their laws to reflect the problem.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

You can make it illegal to possess weapons. You can make it harder for law abiding citizens to get weapons.

Until you address the other issue, things won't change.

This is only half the problem. Most of these "massacres" don't come from people who are economically disadvantaged, they come from mentally unstable people who had easy access to guns.

 

[acri1]

You can make it illegal to possess weapons. You can make it harder for law abiding citizens to get weapons.

Until you address the other issue, things won't change.

So you don't think stricter gun control laws would also make it harder for criminals and/or mentally ill people to get weapons?

I don't think EVERYBODY knows somebody that will sell them an illegal weapon. Even in this recent school shooting, the guy apparently got the gun from his mother (who had them legally), not somebody on the street. Had she not had the guns, it's feasible that the shooter would not have had access to guns or at least would have had a harder time getting them.

IMO, making guns harder to get in general would make them harder to get for criminals. It's not like all (or even most) people involved in gun violence get the guns off the street. It's often from friends/family or because they bought the gun legally.

 

[Type Username Here]

This is only half the problem. Most of these "massacres" don't come from people who are economically disadvantaged, they come from mentally unstable people who had easy access to guns.

Did this Adam Lanza buy his own weapons?

I don't get it.

His mother bought the weapons, he took her weapons, and you say the gun laws don't work.

The only solution it seems you are advocating is total ban on guns. That won't happen bro. Never. It's like the Right Wingers saying that they will overturn Roe V Wade.

The guns are already everywhere. You won't got rid of them short of waving a magic wand.