Let's talk about the deteriorating skill of Jay-Z

Dusty Bake Activate

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VVD, everything that dude Harry said about you and Nas stans is true. I've said it time and again. The old site and now the Booth here have the done the greatest amount to make me be irritated with Nas.

I got clowned the other day by Nv-Me and got called a mad "idiot" because I said it was clownish for him to say that 20 years from now Nas will be regarded as the voice of this generation :shaq2:

Do you know how outlandish that shyt is? I won't even reiterate why it was. I can just copy and paste that post. In a thread bigging up Nas they found a way to deduce Jay-Z to a party rapper. Yet, no one manned up to explain how 80% of the songs on a Jay album can't be played at parties yet he is still a party rapper. Nas fans can be insufferable sometimes. And they ALWAYS find a way to reference Jay-Z while they're at it. ALWAYS.

It's crazy to me. These are two favorite rappers ever, and sitting back objectively it's clear Jay-Z has a more diverse fan base and maybe somewhere in that, the core group that vibes with Nas resent it.
Cool story. What do you think about the thread topic?
 
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These are stereotypical Jay dikkrider/apologist posts.

Ad hominem attack on the messenger...check.

Boasts about Jay's "influence" and call people who don't worship him like an idol "too dumb to understand" in order to deflect from the fact that he's in decline...check.

Cliched, vacuous apple-polishing statements like "real recognize real" that try to obscure the truth...check.

Attempts to explain away his lack of lyrical prowess and creativity in recent years by saying he wants to "do different things" and "ain't trying to be lyrical no more," as if one can't grow and move in a different artistic direction and still maintain your level of lyricism....check

The only thing missing was a Jay quote. I was expecting "Do y'all listen to music or do you just skim through it?" at any moment.

:laff: i really dont give a fukk about these threads, but this shyt got me dying..

this dude VVD in here kamikaze posting on Jay stans..
 

Still Benefited

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Saw the Nas avi and knew there wuz bias involved but gave u a chance....then the Nas pat on the back came midway and I realized what this really wuz...u ain't slick bruh:russ: Nas. Fans giddy over this album....been a while since u had a nice Nas album huh?:manny:
 

McPiff

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Thread starter has a point and explains himself very well but I know how this is already gonna play out. Don't expect to get any real discussion just name calling and Stan accusations.

Edit:
Looks like it already has. Place isn't all that different from SOHH after all.

So what points did he make? that jay hasn't spit something worthwhile since his fake retirement?
:leostare:
That nikka just used his "i used to like his music" pass just to not be labeled as a "hater"


I can't understand this bizarro-land sh1t

how can anyone listen to 3 kings and be like :lawd: hov killed that! tell me more about how you met oprah and your wife/daughter/maid etc stunts on people's lives

then drop the beat and put an echo on that while you ramble like you got woken up by a smoke detector battery alarm

y'all nikkas are well known nas stans though :manny:

Its funny how people started caping for Jay and calling dude a stan on some defense mechanism but yet failing to actually challenge thread starters point. He gave a honest critique of Jay's music from his opinion.

AGAIN, what valid points did he give? if it's his opinion thats cool but don't come in here saying jay fell off using stupid points while biggin up Nas at the same time.
 

Drew Wonder

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I said it another thread and I'll say it here, just because he's not hitting you with a thousand rhyme schemes and internal rhymes doesn't mean Jay isn't lyrical.

Jay's verse on No Church in the Wild is genius level lyricism, anyone who disagrees just isn't paying attention

Jay proceeds with what I believe to be one of the best verses of his career. “Tears on the mausoleum floor, blood stains the Colosseum doors, lies on the lips of a priest, Thanksgiving disguised as a feast.” Tainted beauty. Elaborate, magnificent, seemingly holy surfaces that distract from the depravity, violence, decay and corruption that lie underneath. Jay then references his car, attire and past as a drug dealer, almost as if saying that he’s a part of the same historical tradition he first referenced. But it’s not until the next few bars when it all comes together. “I’m wondering if a thug’s prayers reach, is Pius pious cause God loves pious? Socrates asked whose bias do ya’ll seek? All for Plato (play dough), screech.” Woah, a rapper referencing the Euthyphro dilemma? Jay is really operating on a higher level here.

I won’t go into too much detail about the dilemma since that would take up an entirely new post. But it basically poses this question; is what society considers to be morally good commanded by God because it is truly morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God? It asks the question of whether or not there is a definitive moral standard or if morality is completely relative and subjective. Jay is addressing this from two different perspectives which lead to the same conclusion. He looks at the dilemma from the point of view of its creator, Socrates, who was referencing the gods of Greek mythology, who are known to be biased and flawed despite their power. Since society’s moral standards are coming from a biased and flawed source, those standards shouldn’t be completely trusted or followed, giving way to moral relativism.

Where Jay really gets bold is his second perspective, the Judeo-Christian God who is perfect and infallible. As Frank Ocean states, these moral standards are meaningless if you don’t even believe in it’s source. But Jay goes further with his Pius/pious wordplay. There’s the actual word pious which not only means religious but also a hypocritical display of virtue. Then there’s Pius, the name of numerous Popes throughout history who often were, you guessed it, religious while showing a hypocritical display of virtue. It ties back to Jay’s earlier references of tainted beauty as well as what Jay believes to be the hypocritical nature of those in power, whether a god or man, who decide what is and what isn’t morally right.

So what’s the point of all this? It’s an outright rejection of what society teaches to be moral in favor of a move towards individualism and living a life free of boundary. Since Jay has rejected this while giving his reason for doing so, he’s now free to do whatever he wants, including indulge in materialism and drug dealing which he references earlier in the verse, two things that society deems as immoral. To drive this point further he ends his verse by comparing Kanye to Jesus and himself to the holy ghost. Blasphemous? Only to those who actually believe in who he references.
 

beenz

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I might have agreed with the Threadstarter this time last year, but old :scusthov: held Down WTT lyrically. And it was no contest there.
 

OG Talk

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I said it another thread and I'll say it here, just because he's not hitting you with a thousand rhyme schemes and internal rhymes doesn't mean Jay isn't lyrical.

Jay's verse on No Church in the Wild is genius level lyricism, anyone who disagrees just isn't paying attention

Thats a good verse... But imo perfomances like this have been few and far between, when they used to be par for the course...


Props for stating your case though, and not changing the subject like a female...
 

Hova

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oh so were giving nas a pass for the last four years of mediocreness, just because to pick up again 2012

Jay can still rap, right now hes not focused on rapping.
 

Ian1362

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OP is doing work in this thread

5 star post rep

people who think No Church In the Wild is "genius level lyricism" are reaching. Tons of cats have done stuff in that vein. See Royce Da 59's King of Kings or Canibus' No Return.
 

Brady-Carter

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