Lupe Fiasco: "Metaphors and punchlines matter....don't need to be a great lyricist to tell a story....shouldn't rely on delivery and flow"

[BlackXCL]

Kendrick stans in shambles cuz he has no bars or metaphors. Doing their very best to make excuses for him, creating massive loopholes, changing rules, etc. As if rap wasn’t built off fukking punchlines, metaphors, rhyming and delivery

Bless Lupe’s heart

 

[Left.A1]

I wonder if Lupe by his own definition would consider Biggie a great lyricist since he wasn't a punch king. This whole shyt he's babbling about here is why he puts out garbage like this



He thinks this kind of shyt is quality "lyricsm" babbling meaningless themes together to produce one big word salad. The shyt is the epitome of "lyrical miracle spiritual" babble that so many stereotypical lyrics fans conceptualize as being high caliber rapping.

Let's take Andre 3000 verse on "Return of the gangsta" for example. Widely considered a classic verse and a perfect example of 3000 general style of multi syllable rhyming matched with poignant content and social commentary



According to Lupes metrics this wouldn't be elite lyricism because he doesn't nerd out with a bunch of forced metaphors or punchlines how silly does that sound when you actually repeat it out loud.

 

[Chip Skylark]

I dig that part

the italicized part is important. when I was a kid listening to rap I would actually then go discover references I didn't know. Rap put me onto a lot history film etc.....

all because I loved the song that educated myself so I knew what they were talking about.

Same!

Some of us love that stuff.

Whats crazy it’s the same K dot Stan’s that run into every Lupe thread calling his work pretentious while arguing Kendrick works are dense is layered and when others say he’s pretentious they get pissed

 

[maxamusa]

I wonder if Lupe by his own definition would consider Biggie a great lyricist since he wasn't a punch king. This whole shyt he's babbling about here is why he puts out garbage like this



He thinks this kind of shyt is quality "lyricsm" babbling meaningless themes together to produce one big word salad. The shyt is the epitome of "lyrical miracle spiritual" babble that so many stereotypical lyrics fans conceptualize as being high caliber rapping.

Let's take Andre 3000 verse on "Return of the gangsta" for example. Widely considered a classic verse and a perfect example of 3000 general style of multi syllable rhyming matched with poignant content and social commentary



According to Lupes metrics this wouldn't be elite lyricism because he doesn't nerd out with a bunch of forced metaphors or punchlines how silly does that sound when you actually repeat it out loud.

Aquemini is peak lyricism. Big Boi and Andre were aliens FR with it. I don't know if I can think of a better written album off top.

 

[maxamusa]

Same!

Some of us love that stuff.

Whats crazy it’s the same K dot Stan’s that run into every Lupe thread calling his work pretentious while arguing Kendrick works are dense is layered and when others say he’s pretentious they get pissed

I really don't even see how the 2 are comparable.


We're here because Lupe is being slick obviously; but they're 2 totally different artists doing 2 different things.

this is why I have 0 interest in the drake k-dot battle.

Beans Vs JADA was the shyt because they were of the same cloth.

How would you even score a hypothetical battle between Lupe and k-dot? you couldn't.

 

[maxamusa]

my bro had the GZA album Liquid Swords. I heard that song BIBLE and woke up. I remember hearing this song and it had a domino effect on my self education.



I still don't know a lot of what killah priest is talking about....I remember that heavy mental album being kinda mid. but it still got me 2 pick up books. and I barely graduated high school. shyt changed my lyfe as corny as it sounds.

 

[Chip Skylark]

I wonder if Lupe by his own definition would consider Biggie a great lyricist since he wasn't a punch king. This whole shyt he's babbling about here is why he puts out garbage like this



He thinks this kind of shyt is quality "lyricsm" babbling meaningless themes together to produce one big word salad. The shyt is the epitome of "lyrical miracle spiritual" babble that so many stereotypical lyrics fans conceptualize as being high caliber rapping.

Let's take Andre 3000 verse on "Return of the gangsta" for example. Widely considered a classic verse and a perfect example of 3000 general style of multi syllable rhyming matched with poignant content and social commentary



According to Lupes metrics this wouldn't be elite lyricism because he doesn't nerd out with a bunch of forced metaphors or punchlines how silly does that sound when you actually repeat it out loud.

The issue with this lies in its misrepresentation of Lupe Fiasco's perspective on lyricism and its comparison of two distinct artists, Lupe Fiasco's metric for elite lyricism may indeed prioritize intricate wordplay, metaphors, and punchlines, but it does not inherently devalue other styles of lyricism, such as Andre 3000's.

Youre implying a false dichotomy between "nerding out with forced metaphors or punchlines" and producing classic verses with poignant content and social commentary. You’re overlooking the nuanced ways in which artists can blend technical skill with meaningful storytelling and thematic depth.

CUT IT OUT Lupe himself said

 

[Chip Skylark]

I really don't even see how the 2 are comparable.


We're here because Lupe is being slick obviously; but they're 2 totally different artists doing 2 different things.

this is why I have 0 interest in the drake k-dot battle.

Beans Vs JADA was the shyt because they were of the same cloth.

How would you even score a hypothetical battle between Lupe and k-dot? you couldn't.

This! But it always happens man ALWYAS shyt is irritating

 

[Chip Skylark]

Aquemini is peak lyricism. Big Boi and Andre were aliens FR with it. I don't know if I can think of a better written album off top.

my bro had the GZA album Liquid Swords. I heard that song BIBLE and woke up. I remember hearing this song and it had a domino effect on my self education.



I still don't know a lot of what killah priest is talking about....I remember that heavy mental album being kinda mid. but it still got me 2 pick up books. and I barely graduated high school. shyt changed my lyfe as corny as it sounds.

All of this!

Aquemini is perfection to me.

 

[Left.A1]

Aquemini is peak lyricism. Big Boi and Andre were aliens FR with it. I don't know if I can think of a better written album off top.

Can you point me to the Metaphors and Punchlines used in that 3K verse I posted. I'm just trying to understand what Lupe is saying in practice not theoretically.

 

[maxamusa]

Can you point me to the Metaphors and Punchlines used in that 3K verse I posted. I'm just trying to understand what Lupe is saying in practice not theoretically.

Im about to work out....pre work kicking in RN.....sure I like these games I'll be on later this afternoon I gotta spin it a couple times

 

[Insensitive]

Many rap fans don't appreciate rapping in totality.

No respect for lyricism beyond a technique or two.
No respect for production beyond a 2 bar loop.
Song writing is sixteen bar verses + hook to tie it together and that's it.


lol.
You can use bridges, complex arrangements, change key and modality, marry that with lyrics that are deep and
layered and show sincere study of song writing in general. Utilizing all kinds of incredible song writing techniques
to make your lyrics hit harder and someone will be like "Yeah bro but he didn't write "art that farts"" or "Buu buuu sound effects".


Lupe is pretentious because he wants you to believe he's a rhodes scholar or some kind of deeply learned poet or playwright
while never ever delivering on that concept.

Kendrick drops the pretension and just pours it into the music.

Anyone with a pair of ears can hear the clear chasm, like legit gulf on the production ALONE.


Do you like Steely Dan? Do you like Toto? Do you like the work of Rudy Van Gelder? Or Bruce Swedien?

How can you respect artists like that then turn around and deride the care and attention to detail put
into albums like TPAB or DAMN?

I always get written off as "Crazy" because I don't accept Lupe Fiasco as the greatest emcee of all time
and rightfully criticize him.

You gotta legit see that the cart is off the rails, if even the slightest criticism is seen as "Extreme".

 

[Left.A1]

The issue with this lies in its misrepresentation of Lupe Fiasco's perspective on lyricism and its comparison of two distinct artists, Lupe Fiasco's metric for elite lyricism may indeed prioritize intricate wordplay, metaphors, and punchlines, but it does not inherently devalue other styles of lyricism, such as Andre 3000's.

But we're specifically talking about "his perspective" in this thread. His comments are what made this a topic so no I think you're trying to water it down. He definitely is saying
..condescendingly so might I add that other styles should be devalued in the face of so called real lyricism that focuses on metaphors and punches

Youre implying a false dichotomy between "nerding out with forced metaphors or punchlines" and producing classic verses with poignant content and social commentary. You’re overlooking the nuanced ways in which artists can blend technical skill with meaningful storytelling and thematic depth.

No my bruh... LUPE is implying this dichotomy by what he said off of his own fingertips. You're creating a strawman as if I made the initial argument... Even now ...if what you're saying was true in the bolded... LUPE would have equally valued all of those skills regarding lyracism but he does not.. in fact.. by his own admission he actually says "turn off your lyricism when doing stories" not lyricism is enhanced/highlight when woven into storytelling... lol... he doesn't view these things as interchangeably valuable and you're trying to sanitize his message for some reason

CUT IT OUT Lupe himself said

YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A GREAT LYRICIST TO TELL A GREAT STORY

That's my point bruh...he doesn't consider storytelling great lyricism... He considers "complex metaphors and lyrical miracle spiritual" Punchlines the hallmarks of lyricism youre proving my point

 

[Left.A1]

Im about to work out....pre work kicking in RN.....sure I like these games I'll be on later this afternoon I gotta spin it a couple times

No problem

 

[Chip Skylark]

But we're specifically talking about "his perspective" in this thread. His comments are what made this a topic so no I think you're trying to water it down. He definitely is saying
..condescendingly so might I add that other styles should be devalued in the face of so called real lyricism that focuses on metaphors and punches

No my bruh... LUPE is implying this dichotomy by what he said off of his own fingertips. You're creating a strawman as if I made the initial argument... Even now ...if what you're saying was true in the bolded... LUPE would have equally valued all of those skills regarding lyracism but he does not.. in fact.. by his own admission he actually says "turn off your lyricism when doing stories" not lyricism is enhanced/highlight when woven into storytelling... lol... he doesn't view these things as interchangeably valuable and you're trying to sanitize his message for some reason

YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A GREAT LYRICIST TO TELL A GREAT STORY

That's my point bruh...he doesn't consider storytelling great lyricism... He considers "complex metaphors and lyrical miracle spiritual" Punchlines the hallmarks of lyricism youre proving my point

He said YOU DON'T NEED TO BE A GREAT LYRICIST TO TELL A GREAT STORY

He did not say GREAT LYYRICTS CANT TELL GREAT STORIES

YOU’RE TAKING IT THAT WAY to disprove him you’re interpreting Lupe Fiasco's comments as indicative of a blanket dismissal of certain lyrical styles or techniques.